Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]

[mr_bo]

How does this stand within the regulations then as this was clearly a team order when team orders were banned? Regardless if it was a coded message to the driver or not, it was a blatent team order! Disgraceful.

Originally Posted by Matty_

Putting aside the overtaking controversy does anyone else agree that Vettel is a bit of an idiot when on pole? He allways seems to be more concerned with cutting off the second placed man (even though he was on the `dirty`side) than he does actually getting a good start himself, again this did not work to his benefit. Maybe he should concentrate on getting away cleanly and then things should work out for themselves....

I couldn't agree more, it is arguable whether Alonso would have beaten Vettel to turn 1, or not, in a straight line race, but the diagonal move to try & impede Alonso just opened the door for Massa - and they both ended up beating Vettel to the corner.

I wonder if Vettel might have escaped the puncture at Silverstone if he hadn't tried to cut off Mark Webber in a similar fashion.

[sherer]

Originally Posted by mr_bo

How does this stand within the regulations then as this was clearly a team order when team orders were banned? Regardless if it was a coded message to the driver or not, it was a blatent team order! Disgraceful.

we've seen it before. Basically what happened was the team told Massa that Alsono was quicker then he slowed and let im passed. As such everyone will say it was a driver decision and not a team order.

You and I and everyone else with an IQ greater than 1 realises this was a team order and not a driver decision but this is what they always say and this is how they get away with it.

it has been referred to the WMSC but I expect all they will do is tidy up the rule and so this is allowed.

I remember back in 97 or 98 the FIA said team orders were banned. At one race Irvine had "brake problems" and had to slow near the end and let Schuey through, think this may even have been in Austria again. After the race he was interview and even winked when talking about the "brake problems" and nothing was done.

Team orders are part of the sport, if they want them banned then open the sport up to single car teams

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by mr_bo

How does this stand within the regulations then as this was clearly a team order when team orders were banned? Regardless if it was a coded message to the driver or not, it was a blatent team order! Disgraceful.

The issue here is that the message didn't say "Let Alfonso overtake" (for some weird reason he's not called Alonso in this house

As such it's likely it was a coded message but based on the likelyhood that it was the fine was issued. If the FIA banned the renault team an appeal in a court would probably find that there is no firm proof it was a coded message hence the ban would be overturned. Hence they can only really slap them firmly on the wrist and say don;t you dare try that again.

[Turkey Machine]

The $100k fine is the maximum the stewards can impose. The WMSC will likely raise that significantly, especially on the "disrepute" charge.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by sherer

it should be up the team to decide what they want to do. The same as late in the season in football if someone was going for the golden boot and a team mate passed to him so he could get another goal it would be hailed as a really sporting act.

Not the best analogy. In football it is all about the team's successes, not the individuals. In Formula One, the first objective is the Driver's Championship.

By the way, the Golden Boot is never assisted by deferred passes. If a player has a chance at taking the shot, they take it. It is too risky to pass it to someone else, who may or may not be in the best position to score.

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Hom3r

£100,000 fine to ferrari is like me getting a 1p fine.

Especially when you take the one hundred million pound fine, levelled against McLaren for Ferrarigate (another scandal that involved, some say caused by, Alonso).

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

Originally Posted by sherer

we've seen it before. Basically what happened was the team told Massa that Alsono was quicker then he slowed and let im passed. As such everyone will say it was a driver decision and not a team order.

You and I and everyone else with an IQ greater than 1 realises this was a team order and not a driver decision but this is what they always say and this is how they get away with it.

it has been referred to the WMSC but I expect all they will do is tidy up the rule and so this is allowed.

I remember back in 97 or 98 the FIA said team orders were banned. At one race Irvine had "brake problems" and had to slow near the end and let Schuey through, think this may even have been in Austria again. After the race he was interview and even winked when talking about the "brake problems" and nothing was done.

Team orders are part of the sport, if they want them banned then open the sport up to single car teams

I think you might be referring to Austria, in two thousand and two. Barrichello, who was destined to win, was force to relinquish his position on the final lap, allowing Schumacher to take first place. On the podium, Schumacher gave Barrichello the number one step and the winner's trophy. Unbelievably, this act of defiance (not the giving of the order), attracted a one million dollar fine. A long long way from the paltry one hundred thousand dollar fine for yesterday.

It was this incident that prompted the rule change to disallow team orders.

[sherer]

I was at Brands Hatch the other week watching the WTCC. In the second race Andy Priaulx was second to the teammate Agusto Farfus. Going into the second lap he let him through so that he could win as he had no chance of the title. In other races drivers have dropped out of fourth place to let their teammates get a few more points.

This happens all the time in all forms of motor sport. Teams should be allowed to work as teams, in the 50s and earlier drivers had to pull into the pits and give up their car.

Drivers have always had to move over as they work for a team, the only difference is now we can hear the radio traffic.

All I think the WMSC will do is issue a clarification to the rule about team orders

[Kymmy]

Fine if the driver makes the choice and also the fact that it's not against the rules in touring cars but this wasn't the driver it was the team and it is against the rules. If they made team orders acceptable then in my honest opinion there's no point in watching the racing anymore.

For Massa it must have been heartbreaking especially with his injury last year and the need to prove himself in a team in which he doesn't have priority. You could hear it in Rob's voice and see it in in Massa's face once he got out of the car, but what does he do, disobey and suddenly find himself persona non grata within the team..

[Flyboy]

With his recent performance, I was beginning to think that Massa had lost his edge, following last year's accident. But when I saw him yesterday, all that doubt went away. But to have it literally stolen from him was just despicable.

[sherer]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Fine if the driver makes the choice and also the fact that it's not against the rules in touring cars but this wasn't the driver it was the team and it is against the rules. If they made team orders acceptable then in my honest opinion there's no point in watching the racing anymore.

For Massa it must have been heartbreaking especially with his injury last year and the need to prove himself in a team in which he doesn't have priority. You could hear it in Rob's voice and see it in in Massa's face once he got out of the car, but what does he do, disobey and suddenly find himself persona non grata within the team..

this is the grey area in the rules. All the team did is tell the driver that Alonso was quicker. After that Massa who drivers for Ferrari and has a contract with them then chose to slow down and let Alonso through. You and I know this is team orders but at no point was he instructed to do so. All they will say is that it was a driver decision. We, and everyone else with an IQ that isn't less an 1 knows that is a load of rubbish but that is the loophole they use. All the championships that ban team orders use the same approach and i've seen it loads of times, even in F1, and they get away with it.

[Kymmy]

Yep, hence the $100,00 fine and no action against the results..

You though ask f1 fans and 99% of them will say that yes it was a form of coded team orders, even the ferrari fans can't deny it Look at the scripted responses from the drivers after the race..

Just remember that the fans bring in the revenue, make them lose interest and the sport suffers

[sherer]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Yep, hence the $100,00 fine and no action against the results..

You though ask f1 fans and 99% of them will say that yes it was a form of coded team orders, even the ferrari fans can't deny it Look at the scripted responses from the drivers after the race..

Just remember that the fans bring in the revenue, make them lose interest and the sport suffers

To be honest the fans don't bring in any money. All the money comes from race fees, advertising round the track and then money from the paddock club of celebs.

The fans pay money back to the cuircuit, most of which are half full this season. IF a circuit makes any money then 10% has to go back to FOM.

Well you and me and anyone who isn't dead can see this was team orders, but you can also see how they never actually told Massa to move over just told him the car behind was quicker. As such it will be a driver decision. I've seen this in other championships where team orders are banned and all the time it is a "driver decision" and not a team order.

[Pierre]

You have to be very naive if you think team orders don't go on with other teams.

Earlier this year when Button had a go at Hamilton and Hamilton got the lead back he was told to back off and not overtake.

Or should I say he was told to "conserve Fuel"

Alonso, at this stage, has the strongest chance of winning the title and Massa will have to support him.

Let us not forget that Raikonnen had to play 2nd fiddle to Massa a couple of years ago when Massa was in the strongest position to win the title.

It's a team sport, and you can't get away from team orders. It's the way it has always been

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by sherer

To be honest the fans don't bring in any money. All the money comes from race fees, advertising round the track and then money from the paddock club of celebs..

And do you actually believe that racing, sponsorship, advertising and even the celebs would turn up if there were no fans there?

The fan is the bottom line, the same in any sport or even the entertainment industry

[sherer]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

And do you actually believe that racing, sponsorship, advertising and even the celebs would turn up if there were no fans there?

The fan is the bottom line, the same in any sport or even the entertainment industry

have you not watched Turkey and China. Both races have almost no fans at the track. In fact most of the time the market they are trying to get to buy their products aren't even in the countries they race in anyway.