Bring Back Fox Hunting

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

What evidence have you to support your theory that their ONLY motivation is class led?

Why don't you re-read my post, try and find the point which you nearly always miss, and see if you still need to ask that question flyboy?

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Why don't you re-read my post, try and find the point which you nearly always miss, and see if you still need to ask that question flyboy?

This was the part of your post I was referring to:

those who only want to stop hunting because they precieve it as tory toffs enjoying it

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

How many with anti-hunt views have actually attended hunts though Sirius?
Very few I would imagine, and you have to agree with Margret that many of them just view it as something toffs do and are really only interested in spoiling the fun of said percieved toffs?
We've seen that by many of the posts in this very thread.
You can split the anti-hunt people into those who don't care who they stop hunting as long as they're stopped, and those who only want to stop hunting because they precieve it as tory toffs.

What is the difference between people watching one animal ripping another to shreds such as Dog/Cock fighting (banned for some long while now) and sitting on top of a horse to do much the same. Why does being on a horse make the spectacle any less barbaric or any more sportsmanlike. Surely we humans can move on from such bloodthirsty spectacles.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Angua

What is the difference between people watching one animal ripping another to shreds such as Dog/Cock fighting (banned for some long while now) and sitting on top of a horse to do much the same. Why does being on a horse make the spectacle any less barbaric or any more sportsmanlike. Surely we humans can move on from such bloodthirsty spectacles.

Sorry Angua, I'm not sure how that relates to my post?

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Sorry Angua, I'm not sure how that relates to my post?

Was trying to show I am neither anti Toffs or necessarily anti hunting

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Angua

What is the difference between people watching one animal ripping another to shreds such as Dog/Cock fighting (banned for some long while now) and sitting on top of a horse to do much the same. Why does being on a horse make the spectacle any less barbaric or any more sportsmanlike. Surely we humans can move on from such bloodthirsty spectacles.

I don't care who or what side of the divide the huntsman are on. I want hunting banned.

I have been to a good few hunts in my younger days and i did not care if those that were doing it had a spoon in the mouth or not. I cannot stomach the fact that these so called humans take pleasure in seeing an animal hunted down by a pack of dogs and then ripped apart for there pleasure and gratification. i dont think i can make it any clearer than that. Simples

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Not that my answer should make a lot of difference, but it is accepted by many that the fox population is by and large self-controlling. In fact, there are many areas of the country where hunts were having to nurture the fox population, because there were not enough of them to hunt. One particular hunt, a few years ago, over did their cub-hunting to a point where they had actually run out of foxes for three years and had to import them from another part of the country.

Got any links and how do urban foxes fit into those stats?Because frankly they overbreed round here.The locals adults are suffering heavily from mange as well.

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Sirius

I don't care who or what side of the divide the huntsman are on. I want hunting banned.

I have been to a good few hunts in my younger days and i did not care if those that were doing it had a spoon in the mouth or not. I cannot stomach the fact that these so called humans take pleasure in seeing an animal hunted down by a pack of dogs and then ripped apart for there pleasure and gratification. i dont think i can make it any clearer than that. Simples

So do you have any solutions to controlling numbers?

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Got any links and how do urban foxes fit into those stats?Because frankly they overbreed round here.The locals adults are suffering heavily from mange as well.

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:20 ----------



So do you have any solutions to controlling numbers?

Shooting for one. But then that takes a bit of knowledge and expertise something the hunters on horses leave to the dogs to do, They are more interested in the sport and the pleasure of seeing an animal ripped asunder for the gratification than animal control.

Originally Posted by Sirius

Shooting for one. But then that takes a bit of knowledge and expertise something the hunters on horses leave to the dogs to do, They are more interested in the sport and the pleasure of seeing an animal ripped asunder for the gratification than animal control.

Well shooting could turn into a sport as well and if it's left to inexpert hands surely just as much suffering can occur.

I'm personally looking for a rather more scientific answer myself..one that is truly painless.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Got any links and how do urban foxes fit into those stats?Because frankly they overbreed round here.The locals adults are suffering heavily from mange as well.

From the Burns report:

34 In lowland areas hunting by the registered packs makes only a minor
contribution to the management of the fox population, and terrierwork, especially
by gamekeepers, may be more important. In these areas, in the event of a ban,
12
other means of control have the potential to replace the hunts' role in culling foxes.
(Paragraph 5.42)

There was also a report compiled about six or seven years ago that showed that foxes are biologically predetermined to not breed when the density of population cannot be supported by the food supply. I don't have a link for it now, but I will try and find one soon.

There is a theory the urban fox population increased over the last twenty to thirty years to escape the hunts in the countryside. My theory includes this, but adds that the nature of our lifestyles produce more food waste and therefore a extra temptation and a continuing food supply. I currently cannot find anything to suggest that the urban fox population has increased significantly over recent years.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

From the Burns report:



There was also a report compiled about six or seven years ago that showed that foxes are biologically predetermined to not breed when the density of population cannot be supported by the food supply. I don't have a link for it now, but I will try and find one soon.

There is a theory the urban fox population increased over the last twenty to thirty years to escape the hunts in the countryside. My theory includes this, but adds that the nature of our lifestyles produce more food waste and therefore a extra temptation and a continuing food supply. I currently cannot find anything to suggest that the urban fox population has increased significantly over recent years.

Well perhaps you should factor in the idi....er people who purposefully feed foxes as if they were some endangered species instead of one of our most successful predators.I think that is one reason why we could have so many urban foxes

I seriously doubt that foxes think aha! I'll be off to town to escape the huntsman...

To be honest that report seemed to be very vague as to definite facts and seemed to be mainly about supposition and vaguely mentions percentages but is fairly vague about overall numbers.It's very hard to come to any conclusion.It's all may be(s),possibles,probably, could be(s)

In fact it seems that no one could actually come up with any outright certainty about anything..

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Well perhaps you should factor in the idi....er people who purposefully feed foxes as if they were some endangered species instead of one of our most successful predators.I think that is one reason why we could have so many urban foxes

I seriously doubt that foxes think aha! I'll be off to town to escape the huntsman...

To be honest that report seemed to be very vague as to definite facts and seemed to be mainly about supposition and vaguely mentions percentages but is fairly vague about overall numbers.It's very hard to come to any conclusion.It's all may be(s),possibles,probably, could be(s)

In fact it seems that no one could actually come up with any outright certainty about anything..

If that were the case, I would prefer to err on the side of not killing something for the fun of it.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Well shooting could turn into a sport as well and if it's left to inexpert hands surely just as much suffering can occur.

I'm personally looking for a rather more scientific answer myself..one that is truly painless.

contraceptives have been used in other countries with some success administered either with a dart from a gun or by using bait ,i.e eggs ,a foxes favourite food .

It also has to be remembered that foxes play a crucial part in controlling other species such as rabbits,kill too many foxes and the rabbit population goes through the roof

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Yes, it's all done very humanely.

*sigh*

If you bothered to read the posts in context rather than posting a selective quote you'll see I was talking about a specific act (the blooding of new members of the hunt) and not about the actual hunt itself.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Derek S

*sigh*

If you bothered to read the posts in context rather than posting a selective quote you'll see I was talking about a specific act (the blooding of new members of the hunt) and not about the actual hunt itself.

You alluded to the fact that deer are killed "humanely" by shooting, when this is often not really the case. So, you can sigh all you like, it still doesn't avoid the fact, does it?