Another nail in the ID card coffin

i don't see the problem either ,after all we carry all sorts of id with us now whats wrong with a nationally recognised one

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Will21st

You may wonder,but you don't want to know!

I can see an ID card scheme being good for police to quickly identify people.I can also see it being good to combat identity theft,and other related fraud.
Still,I prefer no ID,it isn't necessary,and also my ID is non of the govs business,imo.

I don't think the police were going to be given the power though to demand "YOUR PAPERS PLEASE!", so it wouldn't really have helped them there.

Re. ID theft & other fraud:

http://www.no2id.net/IDSchemes/whyNot

Originally Posted by NO2ID

Illegal immigration and working

People will still enter Britain using foreign documents—genuine or forged—and ID cards offer no more deterrent to people smugglers than passports and visas. Employers already face substantial penalties for failing to obtain proof of entitlement to work, yet there are only a handful of prosecutions a year.

Benefit fraud and abuse of public services

Identity is "only a tiny part of the problem in the benefit system." Figures for claims under false identity are estimated at £50 million (2.5%) of an (estimated) £2 billion per year in fraudulent claims.

"Identity fraud"

Both Australia and the USA have far worse problems of identity theft than Britain, precisely because of general reliance on a single reference source. Costs usually cited for of identity-related crime here include much fraud not susceptible to an ID system. Nominally "secure", trusted, ID is more useful to the fraudster. The Home Office has not explained how it will stop registration by identity thieves in the personae of innocent others. Coherent collection of all sensitive personal data by government, and its easy transmission between departments, will create vast new opportunities for data-theft.

Anyway... RIP ID Cards & the ID DB

Originally Posted by martyh

i don't see the problem either ,after all we carry all sorts of id with us now whats wrong with a nationally recognised one

Recognition of an official card by the State was never the problem. The problem was the fundamental shift in the relationship between the citizen and the State. Are you free or are you not? Does the State exist to tell you, where absolutely necessary, what you cannot do, or does it exist to give you a list of the things you can do?

If you are born free, and live free, then any scheme that compels you to be registered and prove what rights you have flies in the face of that freedom.

Originally Posted by Chris

Recognition of an official card by the State was never the problem. The problem was the fundamental shift in the relationship between the citizen and the State. Are you free or are you not? Does the State exist to tell you, where absolutely necessary, what you cannot do, or does it exist to give you a list of the things you can do?

If you are born free, and live free, then any scheme that compels you to be registered and prove what rights you have flies in the face of that freedom.

i do understand where your coming from and do somewhat agree with your sentiments .
my opinion is that given the amount of freedoms we have lost already simply by living in a modern society having a national id card/data base is only an extention of what we already have ,except the information held on us is spread throughout several different databases .before any further scheme is proposed (and i agree 100%that the labour idea was deeply flawed)there must be much more thought go into it regarding what it's purpose is
but in principle i don't mind the idea of having one

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

The cards were going to have remote sensing (like those ski passes) so the state would know who you are and where you are 24/7. But if you've done nothing wrong.....

'RFID tag' - the rude words ID card ministers won't say

Which is fine, until the definition of "done nothing wrong" is amended by the Government of the day.....

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Which is fine, until the definition of "done nothing wrong" is amended by the Government of the day.....

Precisely. The law of unintended consequences guarantees that these things would have been used beyond the way they were intended to be used. Just as CCTV cameras have been used to pad out ITV1's weekday schedule and anti-terror laws have been used to persecute amateur photographers.

I am so, so glad we have a coalition now in power with a broad agreement that liberty, rather than authoritarianism, should be the rule of thumb when making laws.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

The cards were going to have remote sensing (like those ski passes) so the state would know who you are and where you are 24/7. But if you've done nothing wrong.....

'RFID tag' - the rude words ID card ministers won't say

I personally have one objection to ANY RFID based ID (be it ID cards or passport). It can be cloned to easily without the owner's knowledge.

The objections I had to the ID card as described were equally simple.

1. It represented an increasing willingness of the government to reduce our civil liberties in view of some percieved threat from terrorists.
2. The government was planning to store this data in one huge database, and give access to that database to millions of people. This would have attracted hackers by the bucketload..
   
   

[Sirius]

Glad to see the back of it

[Angua]

One of reasons behind the ID card was to be able to identify terrorists. However all an ID card will manage in this situation is to give the terrorists a nice easy means of appearing legitimate.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Chris

If you are born free, and live free, then any scheme that compels you to be registered and prove what rights you have flies in the face of that freedom.

I agree. A few years ago I argued the opposite with Graham but the older I get the more anti government I am becoming.....

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I agree. A few years ago I argued the opposite with Graham but the older I get the more anti government I am becoming.....

Ditto, the word is 'Libertarian' I think

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I agree. A few years ago I argued the opposite with Graham but the older I get the more anti government I am becoming.....

Becoming increasingly 'anti-government' is the least of the problems you can expect as you grow older...

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Angua

One of reasons behind the ID card was to be able to identify terrorists. However all an ID card will manage in this situation is to give the terrorists a nice easy means of appearing legitimate.

Terrorists from certain groups (e.g. the IRA) were surprisingly efficient at gaining access to official forms of ID. I don't see how an Identity Card would have changed that.