students to miss Sats

[andycollins]

I've enjoyed the debate, I'm sure that time will tell. Good luck to all those children taking the tests this coming week, do your best that's all anyone wants and remember you're 11, in the great scheme of things ultimately these tests are but a tiny part of your future successes... I'm off to get beat on the playstation by my 9 year old!

[Flyboy]

If this had happened at Flyboy9's and Flyboy11's school, there would have been a parental revolt. Our children have been training for these exams for a long time and have been looking forward to them for sometime. I truly do not believe that the headteachers who have refused to take part in these exams really have the best interests of the children as their priority. I would like to see the recent results of the school's who have carried out these boycotts.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

If this had happened at Flyboy9's and Flyboy11's school, there would have been a parental revolt. Our children have been training for these exams for a long time and have been looking forward to them for sometime. I truly do not believe that the headteachers who have refused to take part in these exams really have the best interests of the children as their priority. I would like to see the recent results of the school's who have carried out these boycotts.

i totally agree .

[Ed2020]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

If this had happened at Flyboy9's and Flyboy11's school, there would have been a parental revolt. Our children have been training for these exams for a long time and have been looking forward to them for sometime. I truly do not believe that the headteachers who have refused to take part in these exams really have the best interests of the children as their priority. I would like to see the recent results of the school's who have carried out these boycotts.

[Flyboy]

Huh?

[Ed2020]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Huh?

Sorry - Opera Mini didn't handle that post at all well. I'll try again!

I meant to ask why you believe the teachers are boycotting the exams, if the interests of the children is not their priority.

In my opinion the problem is not the missed exam, it's the amount of time spent preparing for exams which are unnecessary and which do not lead to any meaningful qualification at the end of it. All of the time spent preparing for these exams (and I don't just mean Sats) is time taken away from real education.

I know several teachers who loved their job but have left because they simply don't feel that they're doing any teaching anymore. It's all about exam results, league tables and statistics. It doesn't benefit the children, the schools, the schools/colleges/universities they subsequently move to, or employers once they leave the education system.

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:45 ----------

Originally Posted by punky

I'm not that up on SATs these days. Would missing them mean them any kind of hardship for them in the future?

No. None whatsoever.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Ed2020

Sorry - Opera Mini didn't handle that post at all well. I'll try again!

I meant to ask why you believe the teachers are boycotting the exams, if the interests of the children is not their priority.

Some, I would imagine, are concerned that many of their students will not pass their exams. If they had their students' best interests in mind, they would not have put them through the revision processes, incurring the stress that they say it places them under.

In my opinion the problem is not the missed exam, it's the amount of time spent preparing for exams which are unnecessary and which do not lead to any meaningful qualification at the end of it. All of the time spent preparing for these exams (and I don't just mean Sats) is time taken away from real education.

What do you think should replace them? How are parents (and just as important, the DCFS), supposed to judge how the schools are performing?

I know several teachers who loved their job but have left because they simply don't feel that they're doing any teaching anymore. It's all about exam results, league tables and statistics. It doesn't benefit the children, the schools, the schools/colleges/universities they subsequently move to, or employers once they leave the education system.

Yet so many more seem to cope quite well.

Originally Posted by Ed2020

Sorry - Opera Mini didn't handle that post at all well. I'll try again!

I meant to ask why you believe the teachers are boycotting the exams, if the interests of the children is not their priority.

In my opinion the problem is not the missed exam, it's the amount of time spent preparing for exams which are unnecessary and which do not lead to any meaningful qualification at the end of it. All of the time spent preparing for these exams (and I don't just mean Sats) is time taken away from real education.

I know several teachers who loved their job but have left because they simply don't feel that they're doing any teaching anymore. It's all about exam results, league tables and statistics. It doesn't benefit the children, the schools, the schools/colleges/universities they subsequently move to, or employers once they leave the education system.

I have to say I've been rather disturbed by the way students are educated.It's about getting on with the syllabus but not about making sure that they have a basis to build on.Many,many times I've felt that a group have not grasped a subject in any depth before they are moved on to the next bit of the syllabus and the relevent boxes get ticked off.The problem is that later when they have to get to the next stage(particularly in maths,languages,English and science) because they didn't grasp the basics the year before they have difficulty the next year when a subject is revisited at the next stage they should be at.Some students especially the lower ability groups never can quite catch up.And yet if they were given more time in the first place they might possibly raise their standard to the next keystage level.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I have to say I've been rather disturbed by the way students are educated.It's about getting on with the syllabus but not about making sure that they have a basis to build on.Many,many times I've felt that a group have not grasped a subject in any depth before they are moved on to the next bit of the syllabus and the relevent boxes get ticked off.The problem is that later when they have to get to the next stage(particularly in maths,languages,English and science) because they didn't grasp the basics the year before they have difficulty the next year when a subject is revisited at the next stage they should be at.Some students especially the lower ability groups never can quite catch up.And yet if they were given more time in the first place they might possibly raise their standard to the next keystage level.

that is probably the best argument against sat testing i have heard Maggie ,and exactly the problem you describe has affected my younger son (14yrs) in maths ,he was struggling with some prime number homework ,which i believe is first taught in primary school he struggled then to grasp the subject but extra time was not given to ensure his understanding and so when it was revisited this year he is again struggling

[Ed2020]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Some, I would imagine, are concerned that many of their students will not pass their exams.

You're probably right, although I doubt it's the majority of them or even a significant minority. And if the pupils don't pass the exams does this necessarily reflect badly on the teachers or the school (or anyone else for that matter)?

Originally Posted by Flyboy

What do you think should replace them? How are parents (and just as important, the DCFS), supposed to judge how the schools are performing?

I don't think anything should replace them. The education system seemed to manage okay before Sats were introduced and I don't think any parent who takes an interest in their child's education needs exam results to judge a school's performance. Nor do I think exam results are a good benchmark for a school's performance for anyone other than statisticians.

Just to clarify - my comment about parents who take an interest not needing exam results to judge a school's performance was not intended as a dig (in case it came across as one)! You obviously do take an interest and an active role in your children's education. Surely you'd know if their school wasn't performing up to standard?

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Yet so many more seem to cope quite well.

I didn't say they left because they weren't coping. They left because teaching has been replaced by endless exam-prep. Sats start at the end of infant school for crying out loud. Infants shouldn't be sitting exams of any kind - it's just wrong. And they have another 10+ years at least of exam preparation ahead of them.

---------- Post added at 19:18 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

It's about getting on with the syllabus but not about making sure that they have a basis to build on.Many,many times I've felt that a group have not grasped a subject in any depth before they are moved on to the next bit of the syllabus and the relevent boxes get ticked off

Absolutely spot on!

Originally Posted by Ed2020

Sats start at the end of infant school for crying out loud. Infants shouldn't be sitting exams of any kind - it's just wrong. And they have another 10+ years at least of exam preparation ahead of them.

Infants should be learning through play not sitting exams.It's utterly ridiculous the way they are put through this considering that at that age they develop in spurts not in a steady even manner.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Ed2020

You're probably right, although I doubt it's the majority of them or even a significant minority. And if the pupils don't pass the exams does this necessarily reflect badly on the teachers or the school (or anyone else for that matter)?

I would suggest that it is more than a significant minority.

I don't think anything should replace them. The education system seemed to manage okay before Sats were introduced and I don't think any parent who takes an interest in their child's education needs exam results to judge a school's performance. Nor do I think exam results are a good benchmark for a school's performance for anyone other than statisticians.

Just to clarify - my comment about parents who take an interest not needing exam results to judge a school's performance was not intended as a dig (in case it came across as one)! You obviously do take an interest and an active role in your children's education. Surely you'd know if their school wasn't performing up to standard?

The results of these test are not just for parents who have children at a school, but for prospective parents. How would they judge the performance of a school? Parents who already have children at a school must be allow3d to know the overall performance at a school so that they can take action of they find that the school is failing. Either by working with the school to help raise the standards, or to withdraw the children to a better school, for which they will need to know how well that school is doing.

I didn't say they left because they weren't coping. They left because teaching has been replaced by endless exam-prep. Sats start at the end of infant school for crying out loud. Infants shouldn't be sitting exams of any kind - it's just wrong. And they have another 10+ years at least of exam preparation ahead of them.

But, as I intimated, many teachers do not find these tests any more stretching than other parts of their work. In fact, since SATs were introduced, almost twenty years ago, there have been many changes in classroom management, not least with the introduction, with increasing numbers, of classroom assistants, in the form of TAs, LSAs and SSAs. Time off for preparation, for example, with many other things that have made teachers lives more manageable. There are many things in today's schools which impact heavily on the work load of teachers, reducing their ability to teach effectively and tests are part of that, but unless they are replaced with something that will reliably provide the same information, they are here to stay.

There are not any exams at key stage one. SATs are teacher based assessments, not tests.