2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Zee

I voted labour as i love the way they are so open for multi-cultural britain, they love to help families, they work hard on helping poorer families. i would never vote conservatives for the reason alone that they intend to ban the full islamic veil.

I could say so much to this particular post but will refrain from doing so as it's too early in the morning to start on that course.

I'll stop with the thought that Labour's immigration policy while it did completely hose parts of the country due to the lack of controls at least bought them some votes.

---------- Post added at 08:01 ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Why? The present House of Lords have done sterling work in watering down some of the more extreme ideas from this government.

I quite like the idea of having the second house elected rather than padded out with their own appointees by the government of the time regardless of the sterling work they may have done. It's a throwback to less democratically minded times that it exists at all.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Zee

I voted labour as i love the way they are so open for multi-cultural britain,

Uh huh. That would have nothing to do with most immigrat voters being more likely to vote labour so throwing open the doors makes it more likely they get returned to power.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle6898174.ece

Originally Posted by Zee

they love to help families, they work hard on helping poorer families.

Yep. It's good that after 13 years of labour the gap between rich and poor isn't wider than ever.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8481534.stm

Rich-poor divide 'wider than 40 years ago'

Originally Posted by Zee

i would never vote conservatives for the reason alone that they intend to ban the full islamic veil.

Eh?

Can't remember seeing that anywhere.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Derek S

Uh huh. That would have nothing to do with most immigrat voters being more likely to vote labour so throwing open the doors makes it more likely they get returned to power.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle6898174.ece



Yep. It's good that after 13 years of labour the gap between rich and poor isn't wider than ever.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8481534.stm





Eh?

Can't remember seeing that anywhere.

Probably the same place where my Daughters school seems to think the Conservatives will insist on Shirts & Ties for ALL schools. - Couldn't find any mention in the manifesto.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Derek S

Uh huh. That would have nothing to do with most immigrat voters being more likely to vote labour so throwing open the doors makes it more likely they get returned to power.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle6898174.ece



Yep. It's good that after 13 years of labour the gap between rich and poor isn't wider than ever.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8481534.stm





Eh?

Can't remember seeing that anywhere.

It's quite amazing how, in spite of the facts, so many people just don't seem to realise how they've been shafted by New Labour isn't it?...

Bliar's legacy certainly lives on doesn't it!

New Labour (the party which was supposed to be 'whiter then white' and going to put an end to all that nasty Tory sleaze) are just self serving, lying, hypocrites. They had the audacity to claim 'foul' about relatively small scale jerrymandering in Westminster in the 1980's when they've been at it on a national scale ever since 1997.

[Ignitionnet]

It is interesting to note that one Labour voter has found out in this thread his big reason for voting Labour was actually not true and scaremongering, it would appear Zee has also been mislead though I have my doubts this actually matters given his POV as an immigrant. Labour's attempts to force Britain to become multi-cultural have been an unmitigated disaster causing incredible issues locally due to overwhelming strain on public services, poor levels of integration, again due to the numbers involved.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

It is interesting to note that one Labour voter has found out in this thread his big reason for voting Labour was actually not true and scaremongering, it would appear Zee has also been mislead though I have my doubts this actually matters given his POV as an immigrant. Labour's attempts to force Britain to become multi-cultural have been an unmitigated disaster causing incredible issues locally due to overwhelming strain on public services, poor levels of integration, again due to the numbers involved.

I'm Labour but I'm not new Labour.I never was.I was Old Labour and I still am.

I never really believed in TB and I knew eventually he'd do the party in..but of course he's clear in all this..no ordure all over him at all.He was canny enough to know when to leave..and whom to leave in charge.

I'm not happy with the Tories.I never will be and time will tell.it always does.

What goes around comes around..especially in politics.

[Ignitionnet]

Now I feel up to answering this a bit more.

Originally Posted by Zee

I voted labour as i love the way they are so open for multi-cultural britain

No they aren't 'open' to it they've rammed it down our throats and even themselves admit they made mistakes being so open hence the belated attempts to fix it through a points system.

Originally Posted by Zee

they love to help families, they work hard on helping poorer families.

Any reasonable human being wants to help poorer families this is nothing exceptional. The problems are two fold though: throwing money at poorer families and making them better off not working doesn't help them get themselves out of poverty it just encourages them to live off the state. Government should be incentivising work and, yes, punishing those who choose not to work and want to make a living off of other people's money. Giving people a sense of entitlement without contribution as imho Labour have just makes people less likely to seek work and leads to other social issues not least of which is a general lack of character among the underclass Labour have bred.

Issue two is that someone has to pay for this social security. It's not fair and not right for people who are working hard, paying their taxes and contributing to see others living in financially better circumstances without lifting a finger. Few things lead to friction much better than people going to work, getting their P60 at the end of the year showing how much tax they just paid, counting how little money they have left after they've paid all their bills and reading stories of people who don't work for no apparent or genuine reason clearly having more disposable income than them. This is only good for a group that are 'traditionally' Labour supporters, it's extremely bad for society generally

Originally Posted by Zee

i would never vote conservatives for the reason alone that they intend to ban the full islamic veil.

Not the case.

Looking back on the previous 13 years with some hindsight Labour have spent an awful lot of the taxpayer's money on appealing to their core vote and indeed have been horribly partisan in many ways with how they've run the country. They've attempted to fix this partisanship not by modifying their own policies but by trying to modify the country through unprecedented levels of immigration, unprecedented levels of governmental advertising and through authoritarian legislation.

Again - nothing I can say will change your thoughts and I've no intention of trying to. If you benefited from Labour then great, the UK, however, most certainly did not - your tax bill will be confirming this shortly.

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I'm Labour but I'm not new Labour.I never was.I was Old Labour and I still am.

<snip>

What goes around comes around..especially in politics.

You couldn't be much more diametrically opposed to me

I can assure you though that there is no way unless hell freezes over that the UK will go anywhere near the Old Labour model of society again. Brown tried it and oh, look, we're in a ton of debt again. On the upside for those who weren't enjoying the enhanced welfare or public sector money that Brown spent it should at least be a reminder for another generation that socialism and big government is a bad idea in a cosmopolitan, capitalist economy.

Old Labour is obsolete. The world is too competitive and too small now for a country that relies on international business as heavily as ours to move to the level of taxation required to support the size of government Old Labour would want. A large proportion of the population are also a tad too libertarian despite Labour's attempts to import those of a more socialist mindset

I am actually feeling quite excited at the prospect of Liberal Conservatism. I just hope they can get their issues resolved and do it right. If they can it should bury Labour, of either flavour, for decades

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Now I feel up to answering this a bit more.



No they aren't 'open' to it they've rammed it down our throats and even themselves admit they made mistakes being so open hence the belated attempts to fix it through a points system.



Any reasonable human being wants to help poorer families this is nothing exceptional. The problems are two fold though: throwing money at poorer families and making them better off not working doesn't help them get themselves out of poverty it just encourages them to live off the state. Government should be incentivising work and, yes, punishing those who choose not to work and want to make a living off of other people's money. Giving people a sense of entitlement without contribution as imho Labour have just makes people less likely to seek work and leads to other social issues not least of which is a general lack of character among the underclass Labour have bred.

Issue two is that someone has to pay for this social security. It's not fair and not right for people who are working hard, paying their taxes and contributing to see others living in financially better circumstances without lifting a finger. Few things lead to friction much better than people going to work, getting their P60 at the end of the year showing how much tax they just paid, counting how little money they have left after they've paid all their bills and reading stories of people who don't work for no apparent or genuine reason clearly having more disposable income than them. This is only good for a group that are 'traditionally' Labour supporters, it's extremely bad for society generally



Not the case.

Looking back on the previous 13 years with some hindsight Labour have spent an awful lot of the taxpayer's money on appealing to their core vote and indeed have been horribly partisan in many ways with how they've run the country. They've attempted to fix this partisanship not by modifying their own policies but by trying to modify the country through unprecedented levels of immigration, unprecedented levels of governmental advertising and through authoritarian legislation.

Again - nothing I can say will change your thoughts and I've no intention of trying to. If you benefited from Labour then great, the UK, however, most certainly did not - your tax bill will be confirming this shortly.

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 ----------



You couldn't be much more diametrically opposed to me

I can assure you though that there is no way unless hell freezes over that the UK will go anywhere near the Old Labour model of society again. Brown tried it and oh, look, we're in a ton of debt again. On the upside for those who weren't enjoying the enhanced welfare or public sector money that Brown spent it should at least be a reminder for another generation that socialism and big government is a bad idea in a cosmopolitan, capitalist economy.

Old Labour is obsolete. The world is too competitive and too small now for a country that relies on international business as heavily as ours to move to the level of taxation required to support the size of government Old Labour would want. A large proportion of the population are also a tad too libertarian despite Labour's attempts to import those of a more socialist mindset

I am actually feeling quite excited at the prospect of Liberal Conservatism. I just hope they can get their issues resolved and do it right. If they can it should bury Labour, of either flavour, for decades

Brown was in no way old Labour...

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Brown was in no way old Labour...

Exactly - he was only a shadow of it and was quite harmful enough

EDIT: As I said though, if you are 'Old Labour' you and I struggle to be more diametrically opposed in our views. Mine consist of nasty things like:

Ring fencing the NHS and paying for it through compulsory health insurance not general taxation.

Previous salary based unemployment insurance which tapers off after a period and is again ring fenced from general taxation.

Rolling back of Lisbon and the UK leaving the EU and negotiating bilateral agreements for free trade and free movement in a similar manner to Switzerland.

Removal of the Lords and replacement with a proportionally elected second house.

Devolving powers to more local levels, with the UK ideally following the model of the United States or Canada. This already happens with devolved powers but I'd like to see England separated into provinces / administrative areas also.

Originally Posted by Zee

I voted labour as i love the way they are so open for multi-cultural britain, they love to help families, they work hard on helping poorer families. i would never vote conservatives for the reason alone that they intend to ban the full islamic veil.

You appear to be confusing them with Jack Straw (who is the Labour Justice (oh, the irony) Secretary), who said he would prefer them not to wear the veil whilst meeting with him

Cabinet Minister Jack Straw has said he would prefer Muslim women not to wear veils which cover the face.

btw, could you provide a link to a Conservative Party Policy stating they intend to ban veils, please?

It seems Gordon is getting a bit tetchy......

Liberal Democrat sources have told the BBC's Jon Soppel that Gordon Brown delivered a diatribe laced with threats when he spoke to Nick Clegg last night by phone. It was in sharp contrast to the respectful and constructive talk between David Cameron and Mr Clegg, they added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/liveevent/

Originally Posted by Hiroki

*Holds hands high in the air* that was my number one reason.

We don't claim for them in my house as I make enough money from work and various other ways so I am able to support my gf & son but a lot of my friends were **** scared about loosing the tax credits (child tax credits) as they depended on them and thought they would be plunged into poverty if they lost them and I felt bad for that reason and wondered what the **** I would do in that situation.

Never knew that it would only affect people who earnt 45k or over

****

Did you ever think of checking? All you had to do was google "Tory Tax Credit Policy" and you would get 81k plus results, and even the first one, from the Daily Hate, states

Labour claimed this week that the Tories would scrap tax credits for people on incomes as low as £16,000 a year.

But the IFS confirmed that the Tories will only abolish them for families on more than £50,000 a year, although those on more than £40,000 will lose some money.
The Tories accused Mr Brown of scaremongering. Shadow Treasury chief secretary Philip Hammond said: ‘It doesn't matter how many times Labour ministers repeat false claims about Conservatives plans for child tax credits; they will remain untrue.

'We support child tax credits but cannot justify paying them to households with incomes over £50,000 a year.’

If you were deceived by G Brown, you have to admit you were partially to blame by believing anything any politician said without checking....

---------- Post added at 11:50 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------

Originally Posted by yesman

It seems Gordon is getting a bit tetchy......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/liveevent/

Gordon - aggressive when he doesn't get his own way - surely not?

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Exactly - he was only a shadow of it and was quite harmful enough

EDIT: As I said though, if you are 'Old Labour' you and I struggle to be more diametrically opposed in our views. Mine consist of nasty things like:

Ring fencing the NHS and paying for it through compulsory health insurance not general taxation.

Previous salary based unemployment insurance which tapers off after a period and is again ring fenced from general taxation.

Rolling back of Lisbon and the UK leaving the EU and negotiating bilateral agreements for free trade and free movement in a similar manner to Switzerland.

Removal of the Lords and replacement with a proportionally elected second house.

Devolving powers to more local levels, with the UK ideally following the model of the United States or Canada. This already happens with devolved powers but I'd like to see England separated into provinces / administrative areas also.

Who is going to pay the compulsory health insurance for the unemployed and incapacitated?

Originally Posted by yesman

It seems Gordon is getting a bit tetchy......



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/liveevent/

Sounds like at least a 7.5 on the Nokia scale. Good good good, give Clegg a taste of what it's like to share an office with you Gordon, that should kill any fading chance of a Lib/Lab pact stone dead.

Originally Posted by Chris

Sounds like at least a 7.5 on the Nokia scale. Good good good, give Clegg a taste of what it's like to share an office with you Gordon, that should kill any fading chance of a Lib/Lab pact stone dead.

Not much of a chance anyway of a Lib/Lab pact as they would need to support of 3 smaller parties,which would mean another election pretty quickly.