Virgin Media Cable Network - Milton Keynes

[arefem]

The Virgin Media Milton Keynes Cable is an oddball in the VM empire. Originally a showpiece of technology, it belonged to BT, who were required by legislation to dispose of it. They priced it so high nobody wanted it. Eventually NTL agreed to lease it, and VM acqyuired it on the 'merger' with NTL.

The MK cable is a hybrid, copper, aluminium and some fibre optic. Oh and it carries and unscrambled UHF signal which does not require a STB for the basic relay. The relay includes: BBC1, BBC2, ITV Anglia, ITV Central, Channel 4 (in two positions), Five, QVC, BBC News 24, and Hallmark (in place of Sky1) as well as several national radio channels and a cable only station (CRMK - see www.crmk.co.uk) which are received on a standard radio connected to a separate FM socket.

VM are responsible for repairs to the metal, with BT repairing (and supposedly upgrading) the fibre optic. Where the two meet, there is always disagreement over who is responsible for the repair. Also VM's customer service don't understand the network, and if you call them to report a fault, they ask you to reset the STB which you don't have, or say you should get the channel through your rooftop aerial, which you don't have either.

You'll notice, no digital channels. Apparently the cable cannot carry them, which is a surprise as you can subscribe to additional channels with an STB.

The basic relay as above costs about £35 per year.

Our area is due for analogue turn off in 2012, a little under 4 years away.

Enquiries to VM & BT about the future viability of the cable are met with stoney silence.

We regularly receive mailshots telling us about the wonders of the VM cable packages, but when applying we are told as we are in thier analogue only area, we can't have the service. Seems like the marketing department could save a few quid by blocking our post-codes then!

So the question is, what future for Milton Keynes. The options are:

Sky
Sky Freesat (Currently on offer at ASDA for a one off payment of £75 incl installation)
BBC/ITV Freesat - Around £120-£150
Freeview - Around £120 for the aerial.

Where I live the Freeview signal is not bad, I get all the channels on a set top aerial, with only occaisional freezes, so I guess a roof mounted aerial will get a good signal.

Looks to me the best bet is to go for the Sky Freesat, hook in a BBC/ITV Freesat STB and get the best of both, switching between them as required and keep my Freeview as it is.

Anybody see any problems with that?

[m419]

when we was going through a bit of financial trouble a few years back, we couldnt pay Telewest because the bill was too high, we agreed to have the service suspended for a few months until the debt was paid and they removed all the equipment, we have no TV aerial anymore, we are in a communal block of maisonettes, the council still havent upgraded the aerial. Therefore we plugged in the cable directly without a STB, we got Eurosport,Sky News,Sky 1,BBC News 24,BBC1 and 2 as well as ITV1 and Channel 4. No channel 5.

When the cable guy came round to install the services back on, we was told it is strictly illegal to use analogue without a STB or subscription.

So I would becareful.

Now in Westminster, BT former cable network exists there too, luckily our street is cabled by Telewest-VM, but 10 mins away its the ex-BT network and the very unreliable Videotron network, they are now offering Broadband and Digital TV on both of those franchises, so it must be possible to upgrade.

However, its highly unlikely that they will expand there phone service to those franchises.

An idea is for Virgin to offer Digital Cable TV and Broadband, but offer there CPS Telephone service down a BT line, I think some people use a dialler for that or enter a 3 digit code like 132.

[arefem]

It's not illegal, at least not in MK - the MK cable was designed that way. Additional channels are provided on a VHF signal, which is upgraded to UHF by a STB.

[m419]

I found an old TV quickstart guide issued by Cable London now Virgin Media/Telewest and these were the channels offered through Analogue:

01 Channel One
02 Sky Cinema
03 UK Gold
04 UK Living
05 Live TV
06 Sky News
07 CNN
10 Performance Channel
11 Sky One
12 Eurosport
13 Sky Premier
14 Sky Sports 1
15 Sky Sports 2
16 Sky Sports 3
17 SETA/Zee TV
19 Trouble/Bravo
20 Parliamentary Channel
21 Carlton Food Network/Carlton Select
22 Fox Kids
24 The Box
25 MTV
27 Cartoon Network/TNT
28 Challenge TV/TV Travel Shop
29 Nickelodeon/Paramount Comedy
30 Disney Channel
31 BBC1
32 BBC2
33 ITV
34 Channel 4
35 Channel 5
37 CNBC News
38 Tara TV
39 History Channel/Euronews/Adult channel/TV X
40 BBC News 24
42 Hellenic TV
43 RTL
44 Rai-Uno
45 TV5
46 Sci-Fi
47 TV Guide
48 Town FM
50 Front Row
51 Front Row
52 Front Row
53 Front Row
54 Front Row

Worst thing about analogue was that channels used to run in shift patterns,best thing about analogue was that it was complex and faster whn using things like the mini-guide ect....

I remember the shift pattern for Channel 19, Euronews would be on from very early in the morning till lunchtime, then Trouble would bounce onto the screen and then at 8pm Bravo would appear. They then put Euronews on Channel 39 so you had like 4 stations on one channel, History channel was only on 4pm till 8pm.

Furthermore, I dont understand why Sky News was cut off from Virgin Media, Sky News is a free to air non-subscription channel, Sky1 used to be but its not now which is why its gone. But I know Telewest has been willing to get shut of Sky News for a long time, around 1998/9 they looked closely at the underperforming channels and these were the ones they cut off:

Live TV
Channel One
TV Travel Shop
CNBC

Channel One was a news channel which was localised, it covered London and Merseyside, it was rather good in my opinion, unfortunetly, Cable and Wireless decided to pull the plug on the London channel and therefore the channel ceased as they were the largest franchise in London.

[techguy]

I think I saw on another thread there was a plan for MK..

[m419]

The problem in Milton Keynes and Westminster lies down to local planning and council regulations amongst other factors.

Basically, the licenced Cable operator for those two areas are:

NTL Westminster (Formerly Westminster Cable TV ltd) (Cable TV)
NTL City and Westminster (Formerly Videotron) (Telephone network only)
NTL Milton Keynes (Milton Keynes CableVision) Cable TV

NTL Westminster formerly Westminster Cable TV ltd is owned by Virgin Media Group plc and is licenced to offer Cable TV and Broadband Internet services to the City of Westminster, however, the street cabinets,cabling and general management is leased by BT and Openreach who have set tough terms and conditions on the use of the network.

NTL City and Westminster (Formerly Videotron City and Westminster) was given a licence to offer Telephone services as well as IPTV and ADSL Internet services in 1991, its licence allows it to offer any of those services to businesses,residents and goverment sectors of the borough of City of Westminster. There is no C.A.T.V network built in with the network or cabinets or ducts. In January 2000,BT prohibited NTL from offering new customers this service as part of the conditions for its lease of 'NTL Westminster' (Westminster Cable TV Limited) (The C.A.T.V and F.M Radio network)

NTL Milton Keynes is licenced to provide Cable Television services to Milton Keynes and is also leased from BT, the management and developments are down to BT.

Westminster City Council:

The borough is listed as a conservation area and tries to avoid allowing people to dig up streets as much as they can.

The only way is to get the local councils and Ofcom to revoke the licences given to BT for these franchises as they are technically refusing to offer Digital TV! in fact, because it is underused,once Virgin Media pulls out, there will be no Cable operator listed so they could re-apply and re-cable from scatch costing between £50 Million to £70 Million per 150,000 homes.

And from what I have heard the Cable system used in these two areas isn't gonna be easy to upgrade because they are ancient and are totally different to the Analogue Cable systems used by say Nynex and Telewest of the mid-90's. The system dates back to the early 70's and 80's.

[chrisdtvuk]

[QUOTE=m419;35014861]The problem in Milton Keynes and Westminster lies down to local planning and council regulations amongst other factors. /QUOTE]

I believe it's partly down to planning as MK council didn't approve the planning of the MK Cable network - it was done by MKDC - the development corporation that established the place .. but that agreement with "BT Cable" was extended in recent times by Milton Keynes Partnership - the quango that took over the majority of infrastructure and local planning decisions. (Many local planning powers recently came back to MK Council, which has helped BT Openreach speed up planning consent for FTTP & C street cabs and civils.)

BT agreed to keep cabling the current expansion areas and future expansion areas of MK. It's not clear for how long.. but MKP was looking to the 2031 Master plan for MK.. not a short term thing by any stretch. A quarter of a million new homes are planned by then.. many of the estates of which are being built right now. Many estates that have already been built and are being marketed for sale now are connected to the cable network (silver 'duct' plate at the front of properties which when opened, reveals a coaxial tv cable with F connector).

[QUOTE=m419;35014861]The only way is to get the local councils and Ofcom to revoke the licences given to BT for these franchises as they are technically refusing to offer Digital TV! in fact, because it is underused,once Virgin Media pulls out, there will be no Cable operator listed so they could re-apply and re-cable from scatch costing between £50 Million to £70 Million per 150,000 homes. /QUOTE]

Agreed - revocation of BT's cable tv licences are the best way to ensure open competition. It may also be that once the government changes the law to allow operators to use BT ducts, Virgin may decide to 'overbuild' BT's Cable tv network. It all depends on commercial agreements with BT whether Virgin are forced to do it that way .. or agree a cheaper price for an upgrade of the current network, and seek agreement to pipe whatever service they want over BT's cables. I understand a resolution to this issue is very close indeed.

[QUOTE=m419;35014861]
And from what I have heard the Cable system used in these two areas isn't gonna be easy to upgrade because they are ancient and are totally different to the Analogue Cable systems used by say Nynex and Telewest of the mid-90's. The system dates back to the early 70's and 80's. /QUOTE]

Yes the network in the older areas of Milton Keynes is old.. but most of it is new .. and even now.. continues to be built out to new homes .. as MK is growing daily - one of the few areas in the UK still building new homes despite the recession.

The network in these areas is bound to be using better connections .. and is likely to be more 'segmented' per node... meaning an upgrade to digital is cheaper... i.e only the headend needing an upgrade. I believe this is why they've been quoted only 3M to upgrade the whole network to 2way digital.. rather than the 30M quoted to NTL back in 1999.

There should be some news on this early next year as I understand the CEO is reluctant to lose such a large swath of customers from both areas .. many of whom have little choice on alternatives.

[chrisdtvuk]

forgot to add - if you live in Westminster or Milton Keynes.. and want digital cable .. then send your address to cablemystreet@virginmedia.co.uk

[Ignitionnet]

I would bet that BT will stall upgrading until they've completed their own FTTC / Fibre To the Cabinet deployment and FTTP / Premises trials in MK

[chrisdtvuk]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I would bet that BT will stall upgrading until they've completed their own FTTC / Fibre To the Cabinet deployment and FTTP / Premises trials in MK

good point - saw this coming true on the tele yesterday morning! (bbc1 breakfast south today)

[mal4mac]

I have a twenty year old 4:3 CRT TV. Recently, Virgin Media started broadcasting the channels at 16:9, and they squash down to 4:3 on my TV, making the people look like stick insects.

How can i unsquash them so I can see the image in 16:9 letterbox?

Virgin media have offered no solution, only saying "Hopefully we can upgrade your area in the near future. If/when this happens all will be informed."

But they *could* transmit in letterbox format - they did on some channels for a few days, which was a 'good enough' solution for me.

Failing that I was hoping I might get some kind of set top box to do the conversion, but Virgin Media say they have no such device.

But it seems such a simple thing - anyone know of a black box that might do it? Or how to build one?

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by mal4mac

I have a twenty year old 4:3 CRT TV. Recently, Virgin Media started broadcasting the channels at 16:9, and they squash down to 4:3 on my TV, making the people look like stick insects.

There should be a setting somewhere on your VM STB that will correct this. However, I cannot advise you where to look as I don't know which STB you have. It'll be in the "settings" somewhere.

You should be able to chose either "widescreen", which will give you black bars across the top and bottom of the picture, or "centre cutout" which will give cover your screen but will cut off the edges.

[spiderplant]

Hey, an analogue question. We don't get many of them here.

The video includes codes (wide-screen signalling) that tell your TV how to format the picture. However, I suspect your TV may be so old it doesn't understand WSS, so just displays the picture as it gets it. (In fact it almost certainly doesn't support it, as the WSS spec was first published in 1994)

The transmitted letterbox format would work for you, but would give a black border or zoomed picture for people with widescreen TVs, which are the majority now.

Unfortunately a new TV may be the only solution. Even if VM went digital in your area, the digital STBs still expect your TV to understand WSS.

ps Welcome to the forum!

[mal4mac]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

There should be a setting somewhere on your VM STB that will correct this. However, I cannot advise you where to look as I don't know which STB you have. It'll be in the "settings" somewhere.

You should be able to chose either "widescreen", which will give you black bars across the top and bottom of the picture, or "centre cutout" which will give cover your screen but will cut off the edges.

I don't have an STB, and Virgin Media say I can't have one, and if they did give me one it would be no use. I'm not sure I believe them

What should I look for on a STB that might allow me to do analog-in/analog-out and convert 4:3 -> 16:9? I live next door to a maplins, might they have anything that could help? Is there any chance their bargain basement £14.99 STB could do the job?

Are there any stores with electronics wizards in MK?

The maplins staffer I asked just looked blank - he didn't know anything about the MK analog network even though the store is in MK! They didn't have an in-store connection (unlike John Lewis - they had an in-store connection and understood my question, even though they couldn't suggest a solution...)

---------- Post added at 10:26 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

Originally Posted by spiderplant

The transmitted letterbox format would work for you, but would give a black border or zoomed picture for people with widescreen TVs, which are the majority now.

I see. I just assumed that modern widescreen TVs would have the ability to cope with any modern transmitted format. Guess that was a silly assumption

Looks like a devious plan to get everyone to buy new TVs. "They" realised they had made a big mistake in making CRTs that could chug along happily for many decades!

At the moment I've put the TV on the floor, and tilted the top of the screen forward, this reduces the stick insect effect to bearable levels, but i don't view this as a permanent solution...

Google tells me that some character is selling goggles that force the image into 16:9... and you get to look like Biggles... but I might worry the relatives if I take that approach...

[Kymmy]

Just buy a 2nd hand TV in the mean time.. Last one I got when I wanted one for the workshop was a Hitachi 28" widescreen CRT for £20 from a local off ebay.. It even has WSS