How do I set up two wireless connections using two wireless routers?

[Joe_rsz]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me sort out my networking dilemma.

Basically, my problems is: I currently have a wireless network, encrypted with WPA2, using a modem connected to a Belkin N1 (F5D8232-4) router. I have one wired computer and several wireless devices connected to it.

But, the downside is that due to its high level of security, I cannot connect my Nintendo DS to it (NDS only supports WEP or lower security). So, after considering the options, I took the plunge and bought a second router (a Belkin F6D4230-4). However, a few problems have arisen.

Number 1: I originally thought I could connect the new router in parallel to the current router. However, only one ethernet port is present on the modem.

Number 2: After encountering this problem, I tried connecting the new router to the current router. Through configuring the new router on my laptop (through an ethernet cable), I was able to change the IP of the new router to 192.168.2.250 (my current router's ip is 192.168.2.1). This just means that I can access the settings page for the new router when it is plugged in. However, after tinkering with some settings I picked up in some tutorials (disabling DHCP on the new router, changing the channel, setting a unique ssid, etc), the router is still clearly not connected to the internet.

In addition, it seems that having the new router plugged in to the old (current) router actually slows down the usually snappy internet connection (a quick test on pingtest.net shows a massive amount of loss, jitter and latency). This confuses me... surely all I have done so far is connect essentially another 'computer' to my router setup, which I wouldn't expect to slow anything down.

So, to sum up:

I need my Belkin N1 connected to my modem and able to broadcast a WPA2 wireless signal (to allow virtually all devices and wired computer to connect securely). I also need a second router which also broadcasts a wireless signal, but it must be either OPEN or WEP. All that will be connecting to this router will be my Nintendo DS console. I would hope that this setup would not allow any potential hackers access to the inner WPA2 network, however. I ideally would like my current network to remain virtually unaffected, and simply have a second network in my home to connect the NDS to.

Sadly, both of my routers do not support wireless bridging, so this is not an option. They also cannot be flashed to use DD-WRT, which I did look at prior to buying the second router (this would have allowed me to set up a virtual network).

I think that's everything. If anyone could help me with what to connect and in which order, with which settings then that would be incredible. Thanks for reading and have a nice day.

-Joe

as far as I am aware this can not be done safely if at all. You can use the second router to extend the range of the wireless network but leaving it insecure will leave your whole network insecure I believe

[Xaccers]

So, either look think about the likelihood of someone actually bothering to hack into your WEP network, or give up on the NDS.
You could also restrict wireless access down to MAC addresses.

[Dai]

It might be worth having a read through Steve Gibson's pages.
http://www.grc.com/nat/nat.htm

He's got quite a lot of information which may help you decide if this is both do-able and safe for you.

[Paul K]

Homeplugs might be an option?

[xpod]

Connecting a second router to act as a separate/2nd wireless access point is quite possible but your whole network would only be as secure as it`s weakest point as far as the wireless connections are concerned. You would still only have one network, albeit with 2 means of connecting wirelessly, and not two different networks.
I mentioned recently that i currently use 2 routers myself although only one acts a Wireless Access point. I have had both doing wireless in the past though and i have had both using either the same wireless settings or indeed completely different wireless settings, never completely Open though.
Our own 2nd router/access point gets it`s net directly from a machine on this side of the house, rather than from the main router itself, but the principle is the same either way. Just remember and use LAN port to LAN port when connecting the 2 routers and make sure the DHCP on the 2nd one is turned off and it has a different IP range to the first. Also look for any router/gateway type options that your particular models might have that need changing but you seemed like you were on the right track to me.

As has already been alluded to you have to decide what the chances of somebody trying to hack your wireless connection is in the first place. If you live out in the sticks with not another house within miles then the chances are pretty slim but if you`re in a built up area with dozens of other neighbours then the chances are probably a little less slimmer, although still quite slim all the same i`d say, with at least WEP anyway.
Using a completly Open connection is just inviting all & sundry onto your network though and not something i`d ever do myself.....not unless i was really bored.

[Joe_rsz]

Thanks for all the help guys. I think I was a bit stupid to buy this router in the first place . However, a couple of questions:

First off, although my modem has only one ethernet port (a physical problem) could this be overcome by using some kind of 1 to 2 ethernet splitter? Or is there some kind of technical problem prohibiting this? And if this is possible, would this still cause the same security risks?

Second, assuming the above is not viable, and I reason that the minor risk of someone finding my new ssid, spoofing a mac address and cracking my WEP on a whim (not sure if the firewall on the second router would have anything to say about this, however) is worth taking, how exactly do I set this up? There are 5 ethernet ports on both of my routers. My first router has a cable from the modem plugged into the yellow port, labelled 'modem', with another cable running from one of the computer-labelled ports into my wired computer (my laptop connects wirelessly). My question is, where do I connect my new router? I assumed it came from another one of the computer-labelled ports and went somewhere into my second router. But which slot does it go into? Does it go into the port that SHOULD be filled by the modem cable (if I was doing things traditionally) or into one of the computer-labelled ports? Either way, I tried both and the connection is still labelled as 'Not Connected'. And, I also tried messing with the 'access point' settings, not really sure what I was doing. Considering I only need it for one limited device, I reasoned maybe that would be enough. But still, no internet.

Finally, IF I somehow manage to set this up, will I notice any effect on my current connection? As mentioned earlier, I did notice problems with my connection when I had the new router connected (although this may be due to incorrect settings or something). I obviously don't want that.

I've posted my problem on a few forums, and this one seems the most helpful *sigh* Way too much effort for a stupid little Nintendo DS

I thank you all.

[Joe_rsz]

Ok, sorry for the double post, but here's an update.

I seem to have got the second router working on my network (I plugged the ethernet cable from LAN port to LAN port, leaving the WAN port of the new router empty[hooray for the proper names of these ports, finally!])! However, I have accepted that there will be some security risks. Although I have disabled broadcast of the SSID, restricted access to only my DS's MAC address, and encrypted the connection with WEP 128-bit using a 64 bit ascii password as a base, I still realise these are only trivial hurdles to jump for a determined hacker. That's why I'm going to simply unplug the second router from the mains whenever I'm not using it. This should be a suitable deterrent (it's unlikely someone will try to hack me in the EXACT 30 min - 1 hour window I'm playing my DS!)

I think that's all. The weird thing is though, before I enabled MAC filtering my laptop (Windows 7) COULD NOT connect, which for my purposes is fine, but might be a problem otherwise. In addition, the Belkin settings page says that the internet is 'Not Connected' (which I suppose is due to the fact that nothing is plugged into the WAN port). Hey ho, these problems don't affect me

Thanks for all your help

-Joe

[xpod]

Glad you got it sorted.
I should have code tagged the "LAN port to LAN port" part eh.
Just unplugging the thing when you`re not using it is probably your best bet but i`d still want to know if someone was seeing the WEP connection and opting to have a go so i`d certainly keep an eye on things when it was being used.

(it's unlikely someone will try to hack me in the EXACT 30 min - 1 hour window I'm playing my DS!)

You already realize that if you did have some determined wireless cracking neighbour then all the hiding of SSID`s and limiting of Mac addresses will make absolutely no difference whatsoever. It`ll just take them 30 seconds longer.

[Joe_rsz]

Originally Posted by xpod

Glad you got it sorted.
I should have code tagged the "LAN port to LAN port" part eh.
Just unplugging the thing when you`re not using it is probably your best bet but i`d still want to know if someone was seeing the WEP connection and opting to have a go so i`d certainly keep an eye on things when it was being used.


You already realize that if you did have some determined wireless cracking neighbour then all the hiding of SSID`s and limiting of Mac addresses will make absolutely no difference whatsoever. It`ll just take them 30 seconds longer.

Yeah, I actually realized that it WAS plugged in LAN port to LAN port, but it was my laptop that was reporting no connection. When I tried on my iPod and DS itself, it worked! Very weird. So I probably had it working straight away, without realizing.

And also, I agree with you 100% about keeping an eye on the connection when I'm using it. Is there a way to do this? As it should be relatively easy to see if anything other than my DS has connected, surely. Some software, maybe?

And one more question (I'm so needy :P) - IF someone managed to hack into the WEP router, how exactly would that screw me over? Would they then have full access to the WPA2 connection and everything on it? And would they still be able to access my internet even when the WEP router is unplugged? And is there some way to avoid this problem?

[xpod]

Originally Posted by Joe_rsz

...snip

And also, I agree with you 100% about keeping an eye on the connection when I'm using it. Is there a way to do this? As it should be relatively easy to see if anything other than my DS has connected, surely. Some software, maybe?

Does the router/access point itself not have some kind of "connected devices" section?

And one more question (I'm so needy :P) - IF someone managed to hack into the WEP router, how exactly would that screw me over? Would they then have full access to the WPA2 connection and everything on it? And would they still be able to access my internet even when the WEP router is unplugged? And is there some way to avoid this problem?

Once they were on your network there`s no end of mischief they can potentially do, besides using your Internet. Everything from sniffing your online passwords to stealing your porn from the computers themselves.
Having file sharing turned off would probably slow down any direct access to the data on the computers it was running on but i`d still call "game over" i think.
Once the thing is unplugged though then not even the most determined cracker will be getting in to it via that route. best security in the word that is...
To reiterate what i said before your whole network is only as secure as it`s weakest point, namely the WEP enabled access point when it`s switched on....well, as far as the wireless in concerned anyway.

[Joe_rsz]

Originally Posted by xpod

Does the router/access point itself not have some kind of "connected devices" section?



Once they were on your network there`s no end of mischief they can potentially do, besides using your Internet. Everything from sniffing your online passwords to stealing your porn from the computers themselves.
Having file sharing turned off would probably slow down any direct access to the data on the computers it was running on but i`d still call "game over" i think.
Once the thing is unplugged though then not even the most determined cracker will be getting in to it via that route. best security in the word that is...
To reiterate what i said before your whole network is only as secure as it`s weakest point, namely the WEP enabled access point when it`s switched on....well, as far as the wireless in concerned anyway.

The only section I can see is the DHCP client list... and as that is turned off, no joy there. In addition, I've read that in fact the DHCP list can be easily bypassed by using a static IP.

So to clarify, if someone managed to get on, then unplugging the WEP router would 'boot' them off? And then if I plugged it in again, they would have full access once again?

[xpod]

Originally Posted by Joe_rsz

....

So to clarify, if someone managed to get on, then unplugging the WEP router would 'boot' them off? And then if I plugged it in again, they would have full access once again?

Yup.....as long as they hadn`t left some "call home trojan" on your network somewhere that gave them simple access back through your wired conenction.

Our girls have 3 DS/i`s between them and connecting them to the net is not something they`ve ever even bothered with now that i think about it. I did connect one or two a while back but that`s about it.
They play each other on the things and anything needing put on their r4 chips is just as easily done without a direct connection so it`s not even an issue here .....thankfully.

[Joe_rsz]

Originally Posted by xpod

Yup.....as long as they hadn`t left some "call home trojan" on your network somewhere that gave them simple access back through your wired conenction.

Well that's encouraging at least... I think. So now all I need is some way of seeing who is connected to the network. I've seen some software that can detect MAC addresses, but I think that would be stupid, as since I'm using MAC address filtering, they would need to spoof my DS's MAC Address in the first place - so wouldn't it just show up as my DS being connected?

[xpod]

Originally Posted by Joe_rsz

Well that's encouraging at least... I think. So now all I need is some way of seeing who is connected to the network. I've seen some software that can detect MAC addresses, but I think that would be stupid, as since I'm using MAC address filtering, they would need to spoof my DS's MAC Address in the first place - so wouldn't it just show up as my DS being connected?

I think there`s actually more chance of a user downloading some home calling nasty themselves as what there is of some wireless hacking neighbour leaving it on their machines.

Our own 2nd router/access point gets it`s net from a desktop/file/ics server machine in between itself and the main router, rather than from the main router so i can feasibly run the likes of Wireshark etc but that`s not an option in your case.......Just connect your DS, play...enjoy.
If anyone is spoofing your DS`s mac address while your playing your DS then you`ll surely know about it when your own DS traffic starts having hissy fits.

EDIT:...shhheee...is that the time....oh dear. I`m in trouble.