The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2

Originally Posted by Flyboy

In the last debate, didn't Cameron suggest that China et al would be sending us a few hot pressies, if we dumped Trident?

No, he didn't - you appear to be doing a Whelan.....

He actually said "Are we really happy to say that we’d give up our independent nuclear deterrent when we don’t know what is going to happen with Iran, we can’t be certain of the future in China?", which is completely different. He was referring to future uncertainties, using China and it's ever-changing policies as an example.

I would have thought Labour supporters would have been the last people to be commenting about politicians making statements about other countries sending us a "few hot pressies", AKA "Weapons of Mass Distraction"...

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Osem

It was bound to happen and it's right that the Lib Dems should be exposed to the same level of scrutiny as the other parties if they stand a realistic chance of influence and power.

In spite of what Clegg has said about Gordon Brown, it's clear to me that the Lib Dems will support New Labour and for that reason I don't think I could bring myself to vote for them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8633655.stm

After all the damage he's done, the thought of anyone extending Brown's role in our government is frightening....

I'm not sure that what the Sun has been printing is what I would call "scrutiny" though...

Why is it clear to you that the Lib Dems would support New labour?

Still, if they did support Labour in the event of a hung parliament, hopefully one of the conditions would be "Give Brown the boot!"

Were New Labour to get the most seats in a hung parliament, but lose the popular vote, I can't see Brown struggling on for much longer anyway.

Originally Posted by Chris

Realistically, how would a Lib-Lab coalition work? How could it possibly work? The Liberal Democrats, AFAIK, are committed to reversing a lot of the odious, authoritarian outrages Labour has put on our statute book over the past 13 years, like the way the DNA database is used, the national ID card, rights of protest, 28 day detention.
[/SIZE]

Yup.

Lib Dems on Civil Liberties

The Freedom Bill

(as for how it would work if they were in a coalition with Labour ...)

Originally Posted by danielf

Good points Chris. And valid reasons for preferring a Conservative/LibDem coalition. Personally, I'm not sure which way I want it to go. Just that change is needed (for the longer term) and that the LibDems need to be part of it. For me, Electoral Reform and Civil Liberties are two major issues, and the Tories seem more likely to act on those than Labour.

I trust the Tories more on Civil Liberties than New Labour (hard not to really!).

For Electoral Reform, though, AFAIK although the Tories do at least agree with the need for some sort of partially elected upper house, they are still in favour of FPTP for the Commons.

Originally Posted by Damien

In terms of electoral reform the worst thing that can happen is the Tories win a working majority. They will do nothing in terms of changing the system. Best case: Labour win the most seats, not a majority, and come third in the popular vote. RIOTS!!

This. (IMO) (without the riots though )

If Labour win more seats than the Tories, but with a lower share of the popular vote, & no-one party has an overall majority, it should surely & finally give them all a good kick up the arse (which they all most definitely need!), plus give the Tories reason to actually support electoral reform for the HoC (instead of continuing to insist that FPTP works fine).

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Are you going to ignore the fact that at least three different people have asked you to justify your claim that Brown has a 'clear advantage' with regard to foreign affairs?

I really don't see what the point is to be honest. But how about this?

Gordon Brown honoured in New York as world statesman of the year

Rock star Bono, Queen Rania of Jordan, and the Israeli defence minister Ehud Barak were among the audience as Kissinger praised Brown for his "vision and dedication" in handling the world economic crisis.

"His leadership has been essential to our ability to overcome the moment of danger," said Kissinger. The award has been previously been given to French president Nicolas Sarkozy and to German chancellor Angela Merkel.

Now I am sure that something will be made of the fact that the Israeli defence minister was there, but the award still holds some kudos on the world stage.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I really don't see what the point is to be honest. But how about this?

Gordon Brown honoured in New York as world statesman of the year



Now I am sure that something will be made of the fact that the Israeli defence minister was there, but the award still holds some kudos on the world stage.

well if bonio is in his corner he cant go wrong

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I really don't see what the point is to be honest. But how about this?

Gordon Brown honoured in New York as world statesman of the year



Now I am sure that something will be made of the fact that the Israeli defence minister was there, but the award still holds some kudos on the world stage.

And the award was presented on behalf of that well-known worldwide organisation,

the Appeal of Conscience Foundation, an interfaith organisation which campaigns for religious freedom and human rights by the veteran US former secretary of state Henry Kissinger

Or to put it another way - "who?" (and being given an award by Dr Strangelove is probably not something I would want on my resume.... )

btw, the 2008 winner was Nicholas Sarkozy, 2005 John Howard of Oz, 2004 Goran Persson (the Prime Minister of Sweden), 2003 the President of Spain, 2001 Jean Chretien of Canada, 2000 Gerhard Schroeder, the Chancellor (prime minister) of Germany (could "buggins turn" have been a factor here.... )

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I really don't see what the point is to be honest. But how about this?

Gordon Brown honoured in New York as world statesman of the year

Now I am sure that something will be made of the fact that the Israeli defence minister was there, but the award still holds some kudos on the world stage.

The award was presented on behalf of the Appeal of Conscience Foundation, an interfaith organisation which campaigns for religious freedom and human rights, by the veteran US former secretary of state Henry Kissinger.

Pretty laughable to be honest. An organisation that campaigns for human rights giving an award to the leader of a political party with such a strong record for eroding them.

[Tezcatlipoca]

ELECTION CAMPAIGN STILL THERE

Originally Posted by The Daily Mash

BRITAIN was profoundly disappointed today as the volcano-based news plume dispersed to reveal that the general election campaign has just been sitting there the whole time.

Viewers who watch the first five minutes of News at Ten before switching over to a Living TV programme about ghosts said they were positive it had all been sorted out last week.

Helen Archer, from Peterborough, said: "I thought that telly programme was the election. I told the lady on the phone that I liked the man who looked like a cross between the other men.

"I assumed that would be that, but now you're saying it's going to be on the telly every day for the next fortnight? <removed>."

She added: "I want the volcano to come back. I like that kind of telly news. I find it exotic."

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Pretty laughable to be honest. An organisation that campaigns for human rights giving an award to the leader of a political party with such a strong record for eroding them.

Laughable - too true! But then that adjective sums up Brown and his supporters quite nicely really....

[Ignitionnet]

Wish I could put a question to Gordon Brown / Alistair Darling. Why is not taxing by 6bn as the Tories plan to so critical, crippling and taking money out of the economy while the 2.5% VAT reduction was stimulating as it, err, kept money in the economy.

How stupid do they think we are? Sad part is they are actually not far wrong.

[TheDaddy]

I am goin to vote for Iclandic Volcano party, they have done more to stop immigration into the UK in 5 days than new Labour did in 13 years.....

[Tezcatlipoca]

More on the Trident debate:

"Election: Clegg right to scrap Trident II, says Owen"

Originally Posted by BBC News

Meirion Jones
BBC Newsnight

On the eve of the Leaders' Debate on foreign policy, Lord Owen has backed Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg's call to scrap Trident II, while the former Chief of Defence Staff Lord Guthrie has called for a rethink.

Lord Owen has told Newsnight that a perfectly adequate nuclear deterrent could be produced for a tenth - or even a twentieth - of the price of the planned Trident II nuclear submarines:

"It's quite ludicrous overkill for a country that's facing a huge structural fiscal deficit and has got to cut public expenditure".

(snip)

... Lord Owen ... says that Britain should never have bought Trident in the first place.

While he was in office he privately advocated a system based on cruise missiles for a fraction of the cost. Nowadays, he says, it would be even cheaper.

New Astute class submarines which are starting to go into Royal Navy service are already fitted with cruise missiles. In times of emergency, he says, their conventional warheads could be switched for nuclear ones.

In today's Times newspaper the former Chief of the Defence Staff, Lord Guthrie, adds his voice to calls from other former military leaders for a review.

"Do we really need the kind of effective weapon we had in the Cold War?" he asks. "There is quite an argument to say we do not."

Lord Owen says this is a commonly held view inside the armed forces:

"Many senior people in the Ministry of Defence want to keep a minimum deterrent with Astute submarines with cruise missiles".

(snip snip snip)

The Daily Telegraph has a story regarding donations received by Clegg:

"Nick Clegg denies wrongdoing over donation cash account"

Originally Posted by BBC News

Nick Clegg has denied any wrongdoing after money given by party donors was paid to his private bank account.

The Daily Telegraph says the Liberal Democrat leader received up to £250 a month from three businessmen in 2006.

Mr Clegg officially declared the donations to the parliamentary authorities and said the money helped pay for a member of his staff.

A spokesman for Mr Clegg said the money was "properly given, properly accounted for and declared".

(snip)

---------- Post added at 02:01 ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I am goin to vote for Iclandic Volcano party, they have done more to stop immigration into the UK in 5 days than new Labour did in 13 years.....

Kymmy is voting for them too

[Jimmy-J]

Originally Posted by Matt D

The Daily Telegraph has a story regarding donations received by Clegg:

"Nick Clegg denies wrongdoing over donation cash account"

Also in the news...

Atheist Nick Clegg discovers religion in time for polling day.

And...

Nick Clegg in Nazi slur on Britain as he claims 'our delusions of grandeur' at winning war are more a cross to bear than German guilt

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I am goin to vote for Iclandic Volcano party, they have done more to stop immigration into the UK in 5 days than new Labour did in 13 years.....

---------- Post added at 06:35 ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Product 13

Also in the news...


And...

‘All nations have a cross to bear, and none more so than Germany with its memories of Nazism

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0lnxP2U7E

But the British cross is more insidious still.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0lnwlLeFq

More so than murdering millions of innocent people in death camps

‘A misplaced sense of superiority, sustained by delusions of grandeur and a tenacious obsession with the last war, is much harder to shake off. We need to be put back in our place.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0lnvnRVtJ

Indeed Mr Clegg and here was me starting to think you might just be able to swing my vote but there again NOOOOOOOO

There's that roll over and give in attitude i expected from the tree huggers and to think that came from the mouth of a man who wants to lead this country. Sorry i dont want someone that thinks we need to be put in our place.

Wooo the other two parties must be running scared if the media have been persuaded to star a slur campaign against Clegg, because up to now he hasn't been worth the effort.

I'm most definitely voting for the Lib Dems now...I so hate this sort of partisan journalism when I should be getting a neutral reporting of facts during an election.

[Ravenheart]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Wooo the other two parties must be running scared if the media have been persuaded to star a slur campaign against Clegg, because up to now he hasn't been worth the effort.

I'm most definitely voting for the Lib Dems now...I so hate this sort of partisan journalism when I should be getting a neutral reporting of facts during an election.

I was thinking something very similar Maggy, I was shocked (but not surprised) at the headlines on a lot of the papers this morning.