The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1 - Page 24

Tezcatlipoca · 12-04-2010, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

from the sky news site

this is probably why they are getting legal aid ,as far as i know legal aid is means tested ,any one of us would not be allowed to use top ranking barristers on legal aid why are they ? the barristers will probably want this case for the publicity but shouldn't someone be able to step in and say "no you can't then you will have to get a cheaper one"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8616261.stm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC News

(snip)

BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said that officials applied the "interests of justice" test to determine whether the MPs should receive legal aid.

The test says if a defendant is at risk of losing his or her liberty - that is, they could go to prison if convicted - then they are entitled to legal representation paid for by the state.

The "interests of justice" test began to be phased out in January to be replaced by a means test for all Crown Court cases in England and Wales - but Southwark Crown Court is not yet part of the new scheme, so it did not apply to the MPs.

Justice Minister Jack Straw told the BBC: "It is simply a matter of chance that [the means test] is yet to be introduced in Southwark, where the former MPs are being tried.

"Decisions about legal aid are made by the courts, and MPs and ministers have no control over the award of legal aid in individual cases."

However, if the MPs are convicted the trial judge could order them to pay back all or some of the costs of the case.

I do think it's disgusting though. Not just the legal aid, but also the claim that parliamentary privilege could be used as a protection.

12-04-2010, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

The Tories are using negative campaigning as well, on TV, Newspapers and on this forum. I appreciate it is mostly a Tory forum but when someone comments positively on Labour they tend to get statistic remarks, a lot of the

emotive, and a generally dismissive attitude as if the factual reality is that only the Tories are fit to win the election. Such a statement is only a matter of opinion.

Tories started the 'I did x, Vote for Me' posters that had Gordon Brown on it. The Sun has been especially nasty to Labour and personally on Brown (remember the 'Widow's letter' thing). The Daily Mail even did that horrible attack on Gordon Brown's wife which someone linked to earlier.

It's looking like it's going to be a nasty election but to pretend it's Labour only is wrong. Tories and the Lib Dems are doing their bit to drag down the overall tone.

which says a lot for British politics

(agree by the way

)

it must be a nightmare for young new voters they must have no idea what exactly they are voting for (if they even bother)it must be a right turn off for some

Jimmy-J · 12-04-2010, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

The Tories are using negative campaigning as well, on TV, Newspapers and on this forum. I appreciate it is mostly a Tory forum but when someone comments positively on Labour they tend to get statistic remarks, a lot of the

emotive, and a generally dismissive attitude as if the factual reality is that only the Tories are fit to win the election. Such a statement is only a matter of opinion.

Tories started the 'I did x, Vote for Me' posters that had Gordon Brown on it. The Sun has been especially nasty to Labour and personally on Brown (remember the 'Widow's letter' thing). The Daily Mail even did that horrible attack on Gordon Brown's wife which someone linked to earlier.

It's looking like it's going to be a nasty election but to pretend it's Labour only is wrong. Tories and the Lib Dems are doing their bit to drag down the overall tone.

It's one big game, mainly controlled by the media. The sad thing is, most people believe what's written and said without seeking any other source of confirmation.

12-04-2010, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

The Tories are using negative campaigning as well, on TV, Newspapers and on this forum. I appreciate it is mostly a Tory forum but when someone comments positively on Labour they tend to get statistic remarks, a lot of the

emotive, and a generally dismissive attitude as if the factual reality is that only the Tories are fit to win the election. Such a statement is only a matter of opinion.

Tories started the 'I did x, Vote for Me' posters that had Gordon Brown on it. The Sun has been especially nasty to Labour and personally on Brown (remember the 'Widow's letter' thing). The Daily Mail even did that horrible attack on Gordon Brown's wife which someone linked to earlier.

It's looking like it's going to be a nasty election but to pretend it's Labour only is wrong. Tories and the Lib Dems are doing their bit to drag down the overall tone.

Well said Damien, I am pleased that I am not the only one that noticed

Charlie_Bubble · 13-04-2010, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

I imagine you were unlikely to vote for them anyway

I think this is a good idea, brings them into the tax system. We also have a better idea of who is in the country.

No, it rewards people who have no right at all being in this country with a British passport. Why should they be able to sneak into the UK on the back of a lorry, spend 10 years avoiding tax and then get a bloody golden passport at the end?

They should do what other people have to do and apply for the correct visas if they want to come. If they knew they wouldn't get that visa then they're obviously someone that this country can do without.

This will only encourage others to do the same thing and is a big finger to the people who legally go through all the pointless hoops being set up to appease the potential BNP/UKIP voters, to come into this country.

Why bother having immigration laws and visa rules if anyone can just hitch a lift into the country and break all the rules and get a passport. In fact, to hell with any laws and rules, free for all, get whatever you can. Don't bother doing things legally and complying with laws and rules, grab what you want. Neighbour got a nice car, don't bother working and saving, break his door down and get the keys. Who needs rules and laws eh?

Flyboy · 13-04-2010, 00:26

I don't think they are proposing making the citizens, only that they should be allowed to declare themselves and bring them into the system.

frogstamper · 13-04-2010, 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

The Tories are using negative campaigning as well, on TV, Newspapers and on this forum. I appreciate it is mostly a Tory forum but when someone comments positively on Labour they tend to get statistic remarks, a lot of the emotive, and a generally dismissive attitude as if the factual reality is that only the Tories are fit to win the election. Such a statement is only a matter of opinion.

Great post Damien, this is exactly why I don't bother posting in this thread anymore.
Maggy posts this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy

You know I can't help thinking that this might be a more interesting thread to read if people were actually debating the issues rather than taking the pee out of opposing factions..How about a few less childish jibes and some true debate taking place..otherwise I might as well stick with the TV news.

then just three posts later we get this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

Cat got your tongue that three former Labour *******s got legal aid?

So they abused the expenses system and then get rewarded with legal aid - why is it TAX payers always get a raw deal? - oh wait that would be because of the useless Labour party, always there to smack the TAX payer in the face.

Absolutely infantile...what is the point of a mod trying to up the standard of debate when another mod comes along and craps all over her post???
Of course the Tory voters will no doubt pull out of the hat how us nasty lefties always have a poke at saint Maggy, that maybe true in some cases but they are far out weighed by the viceral anti-Labour posts as the one above.

Big · 13-04-2010, 08:13

Both parties are not specific on the issue of the deficit. Are they going to increase VAT? are they going to increase the tax? etc

The cuts will be bigger than Thatcher's, the screwing of the working people is coming up and nobody is addressing it!

**Hugh** · 13-04-2010, 09:04

My apologies for only pointing out that Labour were using negative tactics - I think it is wrong of all parties to do so.

---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

So do you think he was right or wrong to do that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I have no opinion the other way, I am just amazed (or perhaps not really) at the hypocrisy.

Those two statements appear contradictory.....

What about the hypocrisy of "Gordon" and "Mandy" and "Ed" proclaiming far and wide that the Tories are going to raise VAT, but when asked for a guarantee that they would not raise the rate of VAT, were not forthcoming? (or is it only hypocrisy when someone else does it, and prudent and being open to changing circumstances when your own party does it?

).

Quote:

Among Labour's manifesto commitments are not to raise income tax rates in the next Parliament, and not to extend VAT to items like food and children's clothes.
Asked for a firmer commitment to rule out a rise in VAT, Mr Brown said: "We have not raised VAT since 1997, the only party that has raised VAT in the last 25 years is the Conservative Party."

Osem · 13-04-2010, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

My apologies for only pointing out that Labour were using negative tactics - I think it is wrong of all parties to do so.

---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 ----------

Those two statements appear contradictory.....

What about the hypocrisy of "Gordon" and "Mandy" and "Ed" proclaiming far and wide that the Tories are going to raise VAT, but when asked for a guarantee that they would not raise the rate of VAT, were not forthcoming? (or is it only hypocrisy when someone else does it, and prudent and being open to changing circumstances when your own party does it?

).

Hammer hits nail on the head!

... and of course anyone who's fed up with this sort of thing from the 'government' which was supposed to be different and put an end to this sort of politics, is branded a blinkered Tory Thatcherite....

peanut · 13-04-2010, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D

I do think it's disgusting though. Not just the legal aid, but also the claim that parliamentary privilege could be used as a protection.

"Gordon Brown says three Labour politicians accused of theft will have to pay back their legal aid". (Sorry no link as yet, only just came up on the bbc news ticker).

(update)
Headline changed, it's now "Gordon Brown 'thinks' three ex-Labour MP will have to pay back expenses case legal aid"

**Chris** · 13-04-2010, 11:27

It looks to me like Gord's socialist instincts are coming to the fore. Their cover art reminds me of this sort of thing:

Although it does also look disturbingly like a nuclear blast. Maybe this is more like what they had in mind:

**Damien** · 13-04-2010, 11:31

Tories have released their manifesto.

http://media.conservatives.s3.amazon...010_lowres.pdf

**Maggy** · 13-04-2010, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Tories have released their manifesto.

http://media.conservatives.s3.amazon...010_lowres.pdf

So now we have both the Labour and Tory manifestos perhaps we will have debate and discussion of 'issues' rather than the 'clack' from both sides?

punky · 13-04-2010, 12:41

I think clack is a bit unfair.

I've been listening to Cameron and Brown next to each other a lot lately and one thing that's becoming more apparent is that Cameron seems to be passionate about what he believes and wants to do. Brown just seems to be saying it as a matter of course.