The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1

That's right, Arthur - the councils and government will charge more and provide less, and keep the money for themselves........

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Osem

If that's what they believe then why not just be be unequivocal about it?

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Can you find me a single post in these forums in which I've urged anyone to vote Tory or even singled out one of their policies as being a vote winner? If not, I can't be much of a Tory can I? I've made this point a number of times in this forum and will repeat it just for you - I'm no Tory and find the notion of being 'stuck' to the ideaology of one party a nonsense in this day and age. I am, however, very much a New Labour hater, having been badly let down ever since I voted for them in 1997. I've voted for all 3 parties over the years and the Lib Dems would be more likely to get my vote this time around if they were just clear and open about this.

My apologies but you are asking for the one thing from the Lib Dems many Tories will then use against them.

Another way of looking at it would be if you were the supplier of drills but can only afford to produce one type of drill bit. You have a preference for one that deals with metal but the best chance of getting an order could be with someone needing a wood drill or a masonry drill. Would you then insist on only producing metal bits which could lose you all orders. Or would you keep quiet about your drill bits and still sell the drills.

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Originally Posted by martyh

sky link

can anyone tell me what the point is behind this load of garbage ,it seems pointless to me and discrimates against people (like me) who have been in a relationship for 20yrs but not married

No point at all. Indeed it actually further discriminates against whichever partner does not receive this. As, if the person in receipt of this massive £150 goes off and marries someone else they keep this money where the partner left behind gets nothing. At least Child Tax Credit is paid to the main carer of the children.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Derek S

And where has all this paperwork come from?

Either the paperwork fairies have been at work or the government of the last 13 years have an absolute obsession with figures which they use to spin, manipulate and outright lie to cover up just how completely useless they are.

Can you honestly see the amount of bureaucracy falling with a Tory government?

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Can you honestly see the amount of bureaucracy falling with a Tory government?

You appear to be answering a question with a question, rather than answering the question...

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Sirius

unwaranted below the belt attack



Having attacked the Nurses you then complain when someone does it to you.

What on Earth are you on about?

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Originally Posted by foreverwar

You appear to be answering a question with a question, rather than answering the question...

Seeing as Derek appeared to answer his own rhetorical question, it would have been rather superlative to add yet another answer.

A reasoned response may have been in order, if you disagreed with his hypothesis....

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

This is an interesting story.



Ignoring the Mail's usual rhetoric this would make a fair amount of sense given past 'disagreements'.

From what I understand from my accountants the increase is going to cost one hundred and fifty pounds per employee. That represents about four thousand pounds extra oper year for my business. Not too bad, considering. Plus there's a couple of extra allowances we can claim.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

What on Earth are you on about?

So you cannot even remember the insult to the nurses that you gave out.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Yes and those lazy nurses should be doing even more of their share of the paperwork.

There does that remind you

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

From what I understand from my accountants the increase is going to cost one hundred and fifty pounds per employee. That represents about four thousand pounds extra oper year for my business. Not too bad, considering. Plus there's a couple of extra allowances we can claim.

You've got to be the first businessman I've known to be
happy about increasing cost to his business,thereby reducing his profit.

IMO the next gov should encourage hard work a lot more by lowering
income tax severly and raising VAT a lot more,say to 25 %.

[nomadking]

The proposed NI increases the cost for businesses regardless of how big a profit or not they may be making. It doesn't apply to foreign businesses and so reduces the ability for UK businesses to compete here and abroad. An all round success then.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

From what I understand from my accountants the increase is going to cost one hundred and fifty pounds per employee. That represents about four thousand pounds extra oper year for my business. Not too bad, considering. Plus there's a couple of extra allowances we can claim.

Can your employees claim those "extra allowances"?

[alferret]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

It seems that some members feel that the Tories will do a better job if they get into power, please remember that the Tories only think of one thing, and that is saving money for themself, its like at the moment there are business's complaining about an increase in NI payments, two reasons for this, one who says the Tories won't do this, two, the big business's are probabely Tory voters anyway.

Surely this country does not want to go back to the Thatcher days, and this is what will happen, she still has some punch in the Tory circle, all this hype from Cameron about we will do this and that, remember what Thatcher said, and this country went through hell.

Like in one borough of London, one side of the road the poll tax was £300 per year and on the other it was £500 per year, and every person had to pay it. This what the Tories will do to find ways of saving money on services, and the public paying more.

Arthur, pull your gead out of your arse mate. Tories havnt been in power for 13 years, Thatcher hasnt been the head of the Troy party since 1990. Thats 20 years (for the mathamatically challenged)
We have had to much of "Its all Thatchers fault" Well this country has been dragged into the mire crapness and there is only one party to blame and thats the Labour party.
Oh and Lady Thatcher doesnt have her hand up the arse of Cameron, so he is not a puppet of Thatcher's.

I would rather swing by the neck from the nearest tree than suffer another 4 years of Labour.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

From what I understand from my accountants the increase is going to cost one hundred and fifty pounds per employee. That represents about four thousand pounds extra oper year for my business. Not too bad, considering. Plus there's a couple of extra allowances we can claim.

Not done the maths but if you like paying taxes that much that's your prerogative. Other businesses and independent think tanks seem to disagree.

The Centre for Economics and Business Research, an independent forecaster, has calculated that the tax rise could cost 57,000 jobs. The Chartered Institute for Personnel Development has said 12 per cent of employers will cut recruitment and 8 per cent will sack staff as a result.

A company of say 250 employees will be looking at 37.5k being taken out of the staffing budget, the equivalent of a full time staffer that won't be hired / retained on the same budget.

Fundamentally unnecessary taxation is an unproductive use of money that should be going into the economy, making people wealthier, purchasing goods and services. Having it instead going to the government and only a proportion of it making its' way back into the economy benefits no-one.

That thought is of course only applicable if you aren't of the opinion that the government is the economy as our present PM is.

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Originally Posted by Will21st

IMO the next gov should encourage hard work a lot more by lowering income tax severly and raising VAT a lot more,say to 25 %.

That would be horrendous. Income tax is a progressive tax so takes account of some ability to pay while VAT does not. Increasing VAT too highly would reduce consumption of goods and services so people spend less and would potentially reduce overall tax take due to a combination of this reduction in consumption along with increased tax evasion. People buying less would also harm the economy a great deal too. No purchases mean no jobs needed to supply the goods and services in the first place.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Will21st

...IMO the next gov should encourage hard work a lot more by lowering income tax severly and raising VAT a lot more,say to 25 %.

I like that idea.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

...That would be horrendous. Income tax is a progressive tax so takes account of some ability to pay while VAT does not. Increasing VAT too highly would reduce consumption of goods and services so people spend less and would potentially reduce overall tax take due to a combination of this reduction in consumption along with increased tax evasion. People buying less would also harm the economy a great deal too. No purchases mean no jobs needed to supply the goods and services in the first place.

I disagree. A young person starting his/her working life should be encouraged to earn money and save money. Raising income tax discourages people from earning money (ask those at the higher rate threshold), and a low rate of VAT encourages spending, not saving.

Or do you want the young person starting his/her working life to forget about saving and borrow, borrow, borrow to spend, spend, spend - just like the government?

Originally Posted by TheNorm

I like that idea.



I disagree. A young person starting his/her working life should be encouraged to earn money and save money. Raising income tax discourages people from earning money (ask those at the higher rate threshold), and a low rate of VAT encourages spending, not saving.

Or do you want the young person starting his/her working life to forget about saving and borrow, borrow, borrow to spend, spend, spend - just like the government?

yes but what you aren't realising is income tax is proportional to the ammount you earn ,VAT is not someone on minimum wage pays the same vat as someone on £50,000 so any vat increase will affect the lower earner a lot more