New 25p drug far deadlier than mephedrone

Making something Illegal does nothing apart from filling over full jails with convicted users.
What sums it up for me is hearing one mephedrone user remark " Nothing will stop me using it, nobody will tell me what I can and cannot use "
The thing is, unless this person and many others are caught using it nothing will stop them.
And when in Jail they will get their fix anyway.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Making something Illegal does nothing apart from filling over full jails with convicted users.

Very, very few people are jailed for simple possession of drugs. A lot of people are jailed for stealing to fund drug habits.

The minute this new drug get banned something similar will get made up.

You can tell people what you like and they will still take drugs. Heroin doesn't really have that many good luck stories attached to it yet there were about 1000 new users each month last year in Scotland.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Bender

there is no stereotype for drug takers.

Aint that the truth..

People generally associate drug taking with people living in council estates (and it does go on in council estates) but, sitting at home now, I'd be willing to bet that there are at least a few people doing coke in multi million pound houses within 3 miles of where I am sitting..

but in your scenario, real friends would respect the initial answer of 'no' and not keep on and on. second to that, the grade A student might well be good in academia, but that has nothing to do with common sense.

Also true. Common sense has nothing to do with with academic ability. It could also be argued that Drug taking has nothing to do with common sense. I know a few people who have plenty of both, but got addicted to drugs. The problem for a few of my friends was coke. For some reason, while all the friends concerned are intelligent (all have degrees, one has an MSc as well as his BSc). All have common sense. However, the problem is that Cocaine appears to be considered to be "safe". I am not arguing that it is (quite the contrary, I consider it extremely dangerous). This has happened entirely as a result of peer pressure. Probably as a result of the MSc guy working for "The Mill" (the special effects/post production house responsible for the speciall effects of many BBC productions, including Doctor Who), so he probaby had friends at work who did Coke and other things.

she would still be stupid for doing the drugs, regardless of what her 'friends' say to her...

I wouldn't say "stupid" as such, but extremely gullible.

Originally Posted by Derek S

Very, very few people are jailed for simple possession of drugs. A lot of people are jailed for stealing to fund drug habits.

The minute this new drug get banned something similar will get made up.

You can tell people what you like and they will still take drugs. Heroin doesn't really have that many good luck stories attached to it yet there were about 1000 new users each month last year in Scotland.

Agreed Derek.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Derek S

You can tell people what you like and they will still take drugs. Heroin doesn't really have that many good luck stories attached to it yet there were about 1000 new users each month last year in Scotland.

The trouble is that users (of any drugs) don't generally think of the problems they may have coming down (some drugs can have extremely bad comedowns). They think of the few minutes of pleasure they get when they are high. And yes, I mean a few minutes. Never done it myself, but I've been told the high from Heroin lasts about 15-20 minutes.

And where they do, the problems they face while off the drugs (which don't go away while they are on the drugs, but they are ignored) are often extremely bad. As such, a lot of people in bad situations percieve drugs as a way to escape from their problems (even if for a few minutes).

It's the same with Alcoholics.

Apart from that, going back to you saying you can tell people what you want, I remember going out with an old friend who was addicted to weed at the time. We'd arranged to go out with another mate to see a film. We arranged to meet at the other mate's house and he was gonna drive us. We ended up driving around the back streets in some god awful area of Croydon looking for dealers for over three hours. While we were driving around, I asked my mate why he didn't stop the drugs. His response was that the reason he didn't is because he didn't believe any drugs were harmful, and any attempt by the government to tell him otherwise was merely part of a conspiracy to stop him having fun. He couldn't grasp the fact that the Government actually has no interest in whether he has fun or not.

[rogerdraig]

legalise the lot hand them out free in chemists with the only proviso being they sign that any consequences are their own problem and that photos may be used of them if it does go wrong to help others

yes people will die ( we dont stop people climbing mountains )

petty crime ( hate that word for crime but you know what i mean ) will drop

and then we can put all the money saved into telling kids and showing them what happens to those who still think its a good idea

Originally Posted by Bender

kind of supports the stupidity theory really! to intentionally take something that you know will alter your state of mind / wellbeing is just crazy... especially when it's something like fertilizer....

smoking and drinking to excess is no less stupid and plenty of people partake of both knowing the dangers but still do it

[speedfreak]

Originally Posted by zing

smoking and drinking to excess is no less stupid and plenty of people partake of both knowing the dangers but still do it

good point

Table 1 Drug-related deaths in England and Wales 2000 to 2004[4]

Cocaine 575
Amphetamine 384
Ecstasy 227
Solvents 246[3]
Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 4,976
Alcohol 25,000 - 200,000 approx.
Tobacco half a million approx (UK - [1]

taken from http://www.drugscope.org.uk/resource...die-from-drugs

I had some absolutely wicked times on mind bending drugs. Only magic mushrooms ever made me sick and that was only once. I cant remember ever feeling ill the whole next day on any drug I took although some days I slept all day. I never got angry or aggressive on any narcotic( I did have a couple of bad trips though)

I was sick most likely 2 or 3 times a month due to getting drunk. I often felt ill the next day will god awful hangovers. I often lost my rag while drunk and did a few times get rowdy. I also was a bear with a sore head if I had no ciggies and when I stopped smoking I was a git

People get on their high horse all to often about people taking drugs well some drugs like smack are pretty much all bad but others for the majority are controlled and they have a wicked time. Some people are just far to judgemental

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by zing

smoking and drinking to excess is no less stupid and plenty of people partake of both knowing the dangers but still do it

Exactly. And look at the problems both can cause. Just because our government puts a tax on it does not mean it can't harm you!

Originally Posted by Bender

Exactly. And look at the problems both can cause. Just because our government puts a tax on it does not mean it can't harm you!

that is exactly my point. But someone takes drug and they are labeled idiots or stupid just look at this thread.

If you look at the stopping smoking thread you will see Mr Angry a very intelligent man but he smoked for a good long time he is neither stupid or an idiot ....

I bet there are a lot of smokers on this forum and a lot of drinkers and even reformed drug takers who still come on here and call people on drugs now. Whats that if not hypocritical?

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by zing

that is exactly my point. But someone takes drug and they are labeled idiots or stupid just look at this thread.

If you look at the stopping smoking thread you will see Mr Angry a very intelligent man but he smoked for a good long time he is neither stupid or an idiot ....

I bet there are a lot of smokers on this forum and a lot of drinkers and even reformed drug takers who still come on here and call people on drugs now. Whats that if not hypocritical?

but as already mentioned, academic levels have nothing to do with it. regardless of ones background, surely you can see that if a person is consuming a toxin purely for recreational value, it's not a very 'clever' thing to do? the body is an amazing piece of kit, and can deal with a lot of toxins, provided the dosage is not too high. this thread is talking about those who consume far higher doses than the body can handle at any one time - that's why it has such an effect.

and with all due respect to anyone who does smoke - what the hell are you thinking?? it's proven that it can kill you in such a horrific way (ask anyone who has seen someone die slowly and painfully from any kind of cancer, let alone self-induced cancer) - it even says it on the packet!

as for those who drink because they feel they need to, either to have 'a good time' or to 'relax', well you really don't need alchohol for those purposes.

but this is all my personal view, and I will not be telling anyone NOT to do something if they so wish - it's your body, you mess with it if you want to. my point it that you really do not need to take drugs (and to be fair you all know you really shouldn't take drugs) purely for recreational purposes. especially when these substances are not designed to be consumed (mephedrone being a fertilizer for example).

if anyone here says that taking drugs is a good thing (outside of medical consultation), well i'm sorry - you are deluding yourself... imo.

Bender we all have to die one day may as well enjoy ourselves while we can ...

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by zing

Bender we all have to die one day may as well enjoy ourselves while we can ...

although this is true, I don't think that we need to run the risk of shortening the time we have here, nor potentially put others (or indeed themselves) through such horrendous suffering and loss purely so one might have a 'few good times' on drugs or drink. I hope you can see where I'm coming from here? Perhaps if you have had the misfortune to see loved ones die slowly and painfully of diseases that they brought upon themselves, you will understand my stance on this. but as I said, I'm not preaching - just airing my opinion. nobody needs drugs to have a good time. does anyone honestly disagree with that last statement? I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Bender

nobody needs drugs to have a good time. does anyone honestly disagree with that last statement? I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

Depends if you picked an ugly one in the rush