Christian terrorists

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

But the corollary of that, to support your post
would be that the generally the first thing Muslims are taught is "to convert or kill the unbeliever"?

It is generally what the hate preachers concentrate on.

Erm, that's not the same as "the first thing Muslims are taught".

That's a small (imho) subset.

Why don't we hope that Saaf (or any other CF Muslim member) turns up, and he can validate (or not) your assumption.

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Chris

Furthermore, the Bible is a large and complex book. Quote mining is fun but not very useful. It does all fit together, but it takes more than a one-liner in a forum post to show how.

I understand from something that I read recently that where there are different rulings within the Koran the later teachings take precedence.
Do we have any similar procedures for the Bible?

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Erm, that's not the same as "the first thing Muslims are taught".

That's a small (imho) subset.

Why don't we hope that Saaf (or any other CF Muslim member) turns up, and he can validate (or not) your assumption.

On the other hand, I don't know what Christian hate preachers teach. Perhaps it may be because they are not so vocal and open about it.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Erm, that's not the same as "the first thing Muslims are taught".

That's a small (imho) subset.

Why don't we hope that Saaf (or any other CF Muslim member) turns up, and he can validate (or not) your assumption.

The 10 commandments that Moses revealed (if you believe in religion/the bible) are equally regarded by Muslims. As for the assumption or ideology that we are taught to hate, kill or convert non believers - well that's just nonsense and it suits the agenda of those that don't like muslims as well as the extremeists who don't like non muslims.

A thing to bear in mind - which is often forgotten - is that Christians & Jews are refered to as people of the book in Islam. This means that they are followers of God, and our belief is that they have been misguided, and Islam was then sent down through Muhammed. (As Jesus was sent before him). In those terms then a CHristian or a Jew is not a non believer. The term non believer is used to refer to those that believe in something other than God eg Idols. But again this goes back to the story of idol worshipping in biblical times.

Anyway back to the point yes there are hate preachers that send out the messages that have been discussed above, but they are not preaching Islam, just their intepretation of it.

The first thing I was taught was to have respect for my parents, respect for those around me, and not to lie, steal or hurt anyone. Whether you're religious or not, I think most people would share the same experiences as their early teaching experiences. My first experiences of being taught something specific to Islam was to learn to read the Koran, pray, and understand my religion. I would say that's the norm and not the exception.

Originally Posted by DaiNasty

I understand from something that I read recently that where there are different rulings within the Koran the later teachings take precedence.
Do we have any similar procedures for the Bible?

The Bible was written over several thousand years and tells a story that goes on a lot longer even than that. It seeks to show the developing relationship between God and people. The earliest examples are individuals making their own altars without the presence of any formal religion at all. It is formalised to an extent when Abraham comes on the scene; still further by Moses, through the complex religious, moral and civil law of Israel. Finally there is the church, which isn't a building or an organisation, but rather a noun that refers collectively to all those who believe in, worship and have a spiritual relationship with God that is mediated through Jesus.

God's basic moral law as revealed in the Bible hasn't changed in its essence from then until now, but the practical means of dealing with morality (or immorality) has changed and developed as God's relationship with the human race has developed. That's why the quotes from Deuteronomy that inevitably pop up in threads like these really aren't helpful, except to those who already have a certain prejudice that they like to get reinforced from time to time.

The Old Testament helps show a Christian how we got where we are, and is therefore a very useful source of teaching, but Christians don't first and foremost look to the Old Testament to discover how to deal with moral issues. The life and teaching of Jesus, recorded in the New Testament, are the fulfilment and the completion of the journey that began in the Old.

Chris, thank you for reinforcing my point (if that was what you were doing) that anything can be quoted out of context - it is the contextualisation, and the overall understanding of something, that tells the story and the ethos, rather than picking quotes that support viewpoints.

If that wasn't what you intended, my apologies.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

The Bible was written over several thousand years and tells a story that goes on a lot longer even than that. It seeks to show the developing relationship between God and people. The earliest examples are individuals making their own altars without the presence of any formal religion at all. It is formalised to an extent when Abraham comes on the scene; still further by Moses, through the complex religious, moral and civil law of Israel. Finally there is the church, which isn't a building or an organisation, but rather a noun that refers collectively to all those who believe in, worship and have a spiritual relationship with God that is mediated through Jesus.

God's basic moral law as revealed in the Bible hasn't changed in its essence from then until now, but the practical means of dealing with morality (or immorality) has changed and developed as God's relationship with the human race has developed. That's why the quotes from Deuteronomy that inevitably pop up in threads like these really aren't helpful, except to those who already have a certain prejudice that they like to get reinforced from time to time.

The Old Testament helps show a Christian how we got where we are, and is therefore a very useful source of teaching, but Christians don't first and foremost look to the Old Testament to discover how to deal with moral issues. The life and teaching of Jesus, recorded in the New Testament, are the fulfilment and the completion of the journey that began in the Old.

Ah Abraham, his son is very important to Islam IIRC

[Reedy]

In Islam it's OK to marry a child, if you're a Christian it's also OK to have sex with a child as many priests do.

[Russ]

And in atheism it's ok to post highly ignorant and pointless rubbish like that perhaps?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

And in atheism it's ok to post highly ignorant and pointless rubbish like that perhaps?

The only ignorant part of it is thinking it's ok to do it. sad that it is, it does happen

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Reedy

In Islam it's OK to marry a child, if you're a Christian it's also OK to have sex with a child as many priests do.

your post is irrelevant to this thread.

but it happens every day ,as an atheist you are entering into the taboo area's of religion ,we are not allowed to pass comment on these practices because we just don't understand .