Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform

[kesterwww]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

IPTV is nothing to do with content hosted on the Internet, it refers to the way in which content is taken from the existing digital hubsites and the Seachange VoD kit that lives in them to the STBs.

VM are doing trials of IPTV over VDSL2 in an offnet area.

OK, this seems to indicate that people outside the cable network could get VM, but how far off the network? For example, I'm in Chippenham, Wilts (SN15) and to my knowledge, am nowhere near a VM cabinet.
I do hope VM launch a national iptv service such as what Tiscili do. Does anyone believe BT's Fiber Optic network could be an advantage in making this type of thing happen?

[tvtimes]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

IPTV is nothing to do with content hosted on the Internet, it refers to the way in which content is taken from the existing digital hubsites and the Seachange VoD kit that lives in them to the STBs.

VM are doing trials of IPTV over VDSL2 in an offnet area.

I was talking about VM's new iptv delivery they are implementing this year. This will only be available to cable customers at least for the foreseable future.
With the new tivo software we will be able to do that according to reports.
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle7050684.ece

This report suggests that internet browsing through your box will be available so you can watch documentaries etc streamed from the net.
Plus special features like behind the scenes, making of, gad reels. This is just going to open it up massively and will be like no other tv experience in the uk. That's if they do implement it but they seem to suggest VM will.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by tvtimes

I was talking about VM's new iptv delivery they are implementing this year. This will only be available to cable customers at least for the foreseable future.
With the new tivo software we will be able to do that according to reports.
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle7050684.ece

This report suggests that internet browsing through your box will be available so you can watch documentaries etc streamed from the net.
Plus special features like behind the scenes, making of, gad reels. This is just going to open it up massively and will be like no other tv experience in the uk. That's if they do implement it but they seem to suggest VM will.

OK we're confusing a couple of different things here. The TiVo Premiere service is not the same as the IPTV deployment. Virgin going IPTV doesn't mean everyone gets access to the TiVo service it just means they save bandwidth on their cable network.

The most recent version of the TiVo PVR isn't compatible with true IPTV systems, it requires cable or cable-a-like TV, it's a cable box that also connects to a broadband internet connection to access programming on the Internet, in a similar manner to, for example, newer Blu Ray players.

http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-pr...setup.html#tab

Again the TiVo service is nothing to do with Virgin's IPTV program. The Virgin box may use an internal cable modem to do standard CATV and TiVo Premiere functionality in one unit but TiVo is not indicative of an IPTV cable network and can be used fully on any cable network that allows you to plug in a cable card so long as you have a broadband connection for the IPTV part.

[tvtimes]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

OK we're confusing a couple of different things here. The TiVo Premiere service is not the same as the IPTV deployment. Virgin going IPTV doesn't mean everyone gets access to the TiVo service it just means they save bandwidth on their cable network.

The most recent version of the TiVo PVR isn't compatible with true IPTV systems, it requires cable or cable-a-like TV, it's a cable box that also connects to a broadband internet connection to access programming on the Internet, in a similar manner to, for example, newer Blu Ray players.

http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-pr...setup.html#tab

Again the TiVo service is nothing to do with Virgin's IPTV program. The Virgin box may use an internal cable modem to do standard CATV and TiVo Premiere functionality in one unit but TiVo is not indicative of an IPTV cable network and can be used fully on any cable network that allows you to plug in a cable card so long as you have a broadband connection for the IPTV part.

Maybe i am getting confused. What i am trying to say purely cable customers would be getting the new iptv system. VM are deploying thier new IPTV system with tivo middleware etc aren't they? We will have access to internet services through our tv. I said non cabled areas have to make do with what they have, they won't have access to the same service we do on the network. There has been no mention by Virgin that they plan on launching outside of the cabled network. At the mo they have Virgin phone and BB but it is very limited and if they were to launch a proper tv service then it wouldn't be like the one we're getting with Tivo. No doubt it would be a second rate service like BT vision. The person asked whether they will be getting the same channels as we do and the answer at the moment is no.

The article i posted says that you won't have to have bb package through VM but they will charge you a different way but it hasn't been worked out how or how much yet.

I thought TIVO was to do with IPTV as i thought a lot of the delivery will be through an internet connection and the new Tivo software will allow you to search vast amounts of content as it will pick up things from the net aswell as VMs existing catv side.

So if there is a difference what is it? Because Virgin announced both iptv and tivo will be launching this year and i imagined they will be part of the same thing. According to this article and many others seem to support my theory that Tivo and VM are coming together and delivering a mix of iptv and catv tv
http://www.techradar.com/news/televi...-future-674066

By the way it's already been said we won't be getting premiere boxes but something different.

[kesterwww]

Sorry if my earlier question caused some confusion.
I was asking if VM had plans to deliver a tv service, such as is available at the mo on cable, over the internet, thus making it an iptv service. I wasn't asking if this new stb including tivo software would be available off the network.
But thanks to all who gave a reply. What I'm still a little unclear on is if the previously mentioned off network trails of an IPTV service, I believe taking place in Cormwall, would be likely to be released nationally to anyone with a broadband connection.

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by kesterwww

What I'm still a little unclear on is if the previously mentioned off network trails of an IPTV service, I believe taking place in Cormwall, would be likely to be released nationally to anyone with a broadband connection.

The trials in Cornwall aren't off network.

The way it's working is over VDSL2+ via fiber to the cabinet, with the cabinets being connected directly to VM's network. In essence it's using VDSL2+ to extend the network.

For it to be rolled out anywhere would require someone to roll out FTTC to the area (in cornwall it's vtesse) and it to be connected to VM's network. VM are not looking at supplying their services outside of their walled garden, if VM don't have a physical presence in an area then you won't get VM. Think of it like LLU, just having a phone line isn't enough to get adsl from an llu supplier, they have to have their equipment in your exchange. The same with this if it's rolled out, only instead of needing equipment in the exchange they need a complete FTTC infrastructure.

[tvtimes]

Originally Posted by kesterwww

Sorry if my earlier question caused some confusion.
I was asking if VM had plans to deliver a tv service, such as is available at the mo on cable, over the internet, thus making it an iptv service. I wasn't asking if this new stb including tivo software would be available off the network.
But thanks to all who gave a reply. What I'm still a little unclear on is if the previously mentioned off network trails of an IPTV service, I believe taking place in Cormwall, would be likely to be released nationally to anyone with a broadband connection.

Sorry, i think i knew what you meant. I gathered you was talking about tv over the net through iptv. But unfortunately there is no plan to launch a service like on net to your area for the foreseeable. VM are rolling out a new iptv service (partnered with Tivo) to their cable customers. The off net customers will either have to stick with Freeview, BT or Sky at the moment.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by tvtimes

I thought TIVO was to do with IPTV as i thought a lot of the delivery will be through an internet connection

/wrists

IPTV does not mean TV over the internet. IPTV uses a closed network, Internet TV is different. The TiVo tie in potentially provides both via a single box but is not the IPTV migration that's been discussed in the past and is in no way essential to the IPTV shift, it's STB software nothing more.

A non-cable based IPTV service would not be using the Internet for broadcasts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTV#Di...om_Internet_TV

VM's IPTV deployment is actually using Cisco kit.

http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_091109.html

The TV service will be using SDV on the VM access network. Content delivered to head ends and hubsites via IP routers and delivered to Cisco kit where the streams are managed, packaged up and pushed down the cable network in a similar manner to VoD streams.

Again, TiVo Premiere is not IPTV, it is Internet TV, simply pulling content from the internet on a best effort basis using a TiVo provided front end. If IPTV were seen to be buffering you'd be wanting to do very unpleasant things indeed to your provider, this is perfectly possible with TiVo Premiere depending on the performance of the internet at the time.

[jrhnewark]

Thank you, Ignitionnet, for clearing that up properly.

The important thing is that they have perfectly well enough bandwidth to deliver as many DTV channels as they like... but any further ones are down to contractual requirements with the customer rather than VM-specific operational ones.

I assume that the new Cisco kit utilises some kind of multicast capability to headends?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by jrhnewark

I assume that the new Cisco kit utilises some kind of multicast capability to headends?

It certainly could, seems to be all new kit not shared with the Internet service and multicast would make a lot of sense.

[tvtimes]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

/wrists

IPTV does not mean TV over the internet. IPTV uses a closed network, Internet TV is different. The TiVo tie in potentially provides both via a single box but is not the IPTV migration that's been discussed in the past and is in no way essential to the IPTV shift, it's STB software nothing more.

A non-cable based IPTV service would not be using the Internet for broadcasts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTV#Di...om_Internet_TV

VM's IPTV deployment is actually using Cisco kit.

http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_091109.html

The TV service will be using SDV on the VM access network. Content delivered to head ends and hubsites via IP routers and delivered to Cisco kit where the streams are managed, packaged up and pushed down the cable network in a similar manner to VoD streams.

Again, TiVo Premiere is not IPTV, it is Internet TV, simply pulling content from the internet on a best effort basis using a TiVo provided front end. If IPTV were seen to be buffering you'd be wanting to do very unpleasant things indeed to your provider, this is perfectly possible with TiVo Premiere depending on the performance of the internet at the time.

I know the tv won't be coming over the net a lot of the ondemand content will. Bt is not even tv over the net, it is essentially a freeview box with ondemand content through a bb connection. VM and Tivo are launching an iptv service which will entail a normal catv style television service aswell ondemand as BB ondemand content streamed when you want it.

Good job we aren't getting Tivo premiere i don't know why you keep mentioning it? VM have said they won't be using those boxes but VM and Tivo are launching something else in this country and VM will use it's own boxes. All i said to the person who asked the question earlier on is that they are launching an iptv service (even if it half and half everyone is calling it a new iptv service) and people on the cabled areas are getting it and non cable customers aren't. We're going round in circles and non of it really matters.

[Ignitionnet]

Would you please read what IPTV actually means and get out of your mind that IPTV involves the Internet. Ignore the tabloid and tech tabloid that feature articles written by clueless journos.

We're going around in circles because of your obsession that without TiVo or Internet integration there's no IPTV, this is not true, the IPTV upgrade is to free up space on the cable network for more HD and VoD it's nothing to do with TiVo! You do not need IPTV cable networks to run the TiVo services, they are running perfectly well over SDV and non-SDV CATV networks in the States and the TiVo service is not IPTV.

Neither you nor I know what Virgin plan to do with the TiVo tie-up so to suggest it won't be TiVo Premiere rebranded and built into a VM branded box is an assumption. Indeed unless Virgin plan on giving every subscriber a TiVo equipped PVR, 4 million of them, it would seem quite likely that many customers will be using legacy STBs which are happily tuning in to IPTV streams.

My point is they are very separate things. Talking about them like they are the same is just wrong. People will not suddenly wake up one morning to find their area has been upgraded to IPTV and they suddenly are able to stream off YouTube and their STB has grown a hard drive and is running a Tivo-based operating system.

With the appropriate STB one could get exactly the same experience on a non-IPTV network - build a cable modem into the STB and use that for the internet content, which is likely what Virgin will do, and the job's done.

It's actually not unlikely that Virgin will release a home gateway box - a single STB which combines TV, PVR, DOCSIS 3 Cable Modem, Wireless Router all in one. Having a single cable modem for both video and internet access won't be a major problem, bandwidth can be guaranteed for video streams in between the uBR / CMTS and the cable modem using assured information rate service flows while using the same equipment as the existing internet services in the headend.

[tvtimes]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Would you please read what IPTV actually means and get out of your mind that IPTV involves the Internet. Ignore the tabloid and tech tabloid that feature articles written by clueless journos.

Vm themselves said they were launching iptv and that it was going to revolutionise thier tv service. How is just freeing up space going to revolutionise anything?

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

We're going around in circles because of your obsession that without TiVo or Internet integration there's no IPTV, this is not true, the IPTV upgrade is to free up space on the cable network for more HD and VoD it's nothing to do with TiVo! You do not need IPTV cable networks to run the TiVo services, they are running perfectly well over SDV and non-SDV CATV networks in the States and the TiVo service is not IPTV.

Lol i don't have an obsession thanks. I never said without tivo there is no integration at all i just said that tivo is going to be part of it as part of vms new tv service and new delivery system. I am aware you don't need iptv networks to run the tivo service i never said it did. I said that it will be part of what we are getting with the new service. You are taking everything said out of context and twisting words.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Neither you nor I know what Virgin plan to do with the TiVo tie-up so to suggest it won't be TiVo Premiere rebranded and built into a VM branded box is an assumption. Indeed unless Virgin plan on giving every subscriber a TiVo equipped PVR, 4 million of them, it would seem quite likely that many customers will be using legacy STBs which are happily tuning in to IPTV streams.

No we don't know but we do know that we won't be getting their premiere boxes rebranded or not. VM have said already that they won't be using the boxes but using their own. Some are suggested it may work on our existing boxes, some are suggesting that we will need new boxes. But VM have said they won't be using Tivo boxes.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

My point is they are very separate things. Talking about them like they are the same is just wrong. People will not suddenly wake up one morning to find their area has been upgraded to IPTV and they suddenly are able to stream off YouTube and their STB has grown a hard drive and is running a Tivo-based operating system.

They may be very different things but it's all going to be part of the same thing that VM are launching this year. VM are launching a new tv service which they say will be iptv and VM will be using Tivo software.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

With the appropriate STB one could get exactly the same experience on a non-IPTV network - build a cable modem into the STB and use that for the internet content, which is likely what Virgin will do, and the job's done.

Vm have said no such thing though, they have't said they will be rolling it out nation wide. Even if they did it will be a poorer service seeing as you have exchange distance issues. VM are in no rush to offer their new service to offnet customers which is what i said in the first place.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

It's actually not unlikely that Virgin will release a home gateway box - a single STB which combines TV, PVR, DOCSIS 3 Cable Modem, Wireless Router all in one. Having a single cable modem for both video and internet access won't be a major problem, bandwidth can be guaranteed for video streams in between the uBR / CMTS and the cable modem using assured information rate service flows while using the same equipment as the existing internet services in the headend.

That just goes right over my head infact most of this does.

I'm going to leave it here, you're obviously more switched on than i am. All i am going to say is that they won't be giving their new tv service to offnet customers anytime soon which is what i said in the first place.

[Buffalo2102]

Just to clarify a couple of points.

The new VM IPTV network does not involve SDV at all and it doesn't in itself actually free up any bandwidth. The coinciding drop of analogue services does.

The TIVO product is totally separate and could easily be done without the new IPTV network.

[Ignitionnet]

Then the plot thickens - I was informed, perhaps misinformed, that the new Cisco Edge QAM equipment was being used for an SDV deployment.

Given you seem to know more about this than I do what is being done about the 550MHz areas that are pretty loaded up with QAMs even with analogue crushed, along with having heavily restricted capacity upstream due to the 30MHz return path?