Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Angua

Would imagine the rearing of this lamb would involve some very practical arithmetic. From the initial purchase through to housing & feeding costs, followed by the value of the meat once sold & to calculate the profit.

calculate the profit? Most hill farmers should be so lucky..

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Angua

There again my children managed very well with the death of their grandmother at the ages of 7 & 4. We were sharing the same house at the time and they knew she was not in the best of health. Was still very shocking.

Learning that something has to die in order that omnivores can eat meat is a valuable lesson particularly when healthy eating is being actively encouraged. Knowing what something really is, is vital.

People continue to underestimate the ability of children to cope with the unpleasant aspects of life and death. Persisting in attributing the same level of learned sentimentality as adults have to children, does nothing to teach youngsters to cope for themselves.

Would imagine the rearing of this lamb would involve some very practical arithmetic. From the initial purchase through to housing & feeding costs, followed by the value of the meat once sold & to calculate the profit.

not arguing with any of that except where it should be taught

yes lots of children cope very well but not all do and it is their parents who make those choices

[Digital Fanatic]

People have the right to be offended or upset by what this head teacher has done regardless of any oppossing view....

.....but I don't condone what some of the idiots on that Facebook group have said / done... that was totally unacceptable.

As usual people hear the extremes on either side and that ruins the actual debate here.

I still feel the children we're too young for this "lesson" and would have been more suitable for older children.

I'd of been traumatised at that age for sure.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Didn't know that had happened and it is a dispicable thing to do, but again, I didn't read the right web pages. Or is this just a bit hyperbole?

Mmmmmm, hyperbole - rich coming from someone who called a school farm animal "a loved one"! So, if you find something, that's evidence - if someone else finds something to the contrary, that's hyperbole?
Anyway, if you will deign to accept something from the Daily Heil as evidence, this was printed in September last year when it originally all kicked off

the situation took a sinister turn as Kent Constabulary began an investigation into 'possible threats of criminal damage' against the school.

A spokesman would not go into details but confirmed a probe was under way linked to the campaign to save Marcus.

There was no suggestion yesterday that any of the mothers behind the demonstrations had anything to do with the threats.

It is believed the threats stem from Facebook postings in which supporters on a save Marcus group made remarks including suggestions that the school be burnt down.

One by Teresa Marie Compton, read: 'Burn the school down. That'll learn them.'

Katie Doolittle wrote: 'Let poor Marcus live and send the headmistress to the abattoir.'

Lisa Price posted: 'I am livid, the b******s killed him. What goes around comes around.'

And Amy Shead said of the headmistress 'She will get her comeuppance.'

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Do you really expect a bunch of seven, eight, nine, ten and eleven year olds really understood what they were voting for? Surely no one is so naive to imagine, a strong minded head teacher could influence a vote by these little children (yes, they are just little children)? Which way do you think a vote to slaughter the class hamster would have gone? Were they asked to vote on whether the animal should be sold, or sold then slaughtered? It would be very interesting to know how the ballot papers were worded, if indeed there was an actual ballot, or was it just a show of hands?

[Obvioulsy I don't expect you to able to answer, but these are all questions that need to be asked]

Re the school council - should it be abolished, as they, in your opinion, can be convinced to vote whichever way the school wants? And since the school hamster wasn't orginally bought to be raised and slaughtered as part of teaching the children about the food life-cycle, it would appear your old friend Mr Hyperbole is visiting again....

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Still, only one parent seemed to have felt strongly enough to post a message and they seemed to feel it necessary to post the same message twice and apparently the only source to the number of parents who complained. In the local press, it appears only two parents felt passionate enough to comment (one being the same from the Independent, I dare say), if they really are parents of children at the school. These sorts of things are hardly certain, are they?

Strange how the only evidence you find credible is that which supports your viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

You are very welcome. Was this just hearsay, or do you believe it to be accurately reported? When I did a Google search-"teacher threats sheep excrement", the only source to reports of excrement being posted, was from that paragon of truth, balance and reliability: The Daily Heil.

Perhaps if your search had been a bit simpler (why put "sheep" in it?), and put in "charman threats" (name of person & threat) you would have seen, in the first couple of links (I left out the Mail and the Mirror) -

Times

The campaign took an ugly twist when personal threats to Mrs Charman were posted online and another Facebook page called for her to be banned from teaching altogether. Others wrote on the internet that they wanted the school burned down.

Guardian

The campaign mushroomed: by the end of September Andrea Charman was receiving personal threats against her and according to the Times some people had called for the school to be burned down

On a related note, if anyone reading or taking part in this thread has been traumatised by the treatment of Marcus, they can leave a message here, a memorial to Marcus.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by DaiNasty

calculate the profit? Most hill farmers should be so lucky..

They might have learned about negative numbers then

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

People have the right to be offended or upset by what this head teacher has done regardless of any oppossing view....

.....but I don't condone what some of the idiots on that Facebook group have said / done... that was totally unacceptable.

As usual people hear the extremes on either side and that ruins the actual debate here.

I still feel the children we're too young for this "lesson" and would have been more suitable for older children.

I'd of been traumatised at that age for sure.

no you wouldn't ,and how the hell would you know
you may have been traumatised if you had seen the lamb slaughtered which was not the case
this sort of attitude is exactly what's wrong imo with modern parenting ideas .Some people think we must at all costs protect the children ,don't let them see,hear or learn about anything that is a little unsavoury
i think children are protected far too much and not given enough credit for the ability to handle situations. For gods sake i used to watch my nan knecking chickens and we didn't live anywhere near a farm ,we lived in the black country in the 70's
so i must oh so traumatised ...absolute load of poppycock from overbearing and over protective parents

---------- Post added at 18:26 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------

Originally Posted by foreverwar

On a related note, if anyone reading or taking part in this thread has been traumatised by the treatment of Marcus, they can leave a message here, a memorial to Marcus.

what rubbish ,what absolute crap ,i'm going to sign up and leave my own personal poem

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by martyh

no you wouldn't ,and how the hell would you know
you may have been traumatised if you had seen the lamb slaughtered which was not the case
this sort of attitude is exactly what's wrong imo with modern parenting ideas .Some people think we must at all costs protect the children ,don't let them see,hear or learn about anything that is a little unsavoury
i think children are protected far too much and not given enough credit for the ability to handle situations. For gods sake i used to watch my nan knecking chickens and we didn't live anywhere near a farm ,we lived in the black country in the 70's
so i must oh so traumatised ...absolute load of poppycock from overbearing and over protective parents

---------- Post added at 18:26 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------




what rubbish ,what absolute crap ,i'm going to sign up and leave my own personal poem

That statement puts you in the same group as the people who posted on the Facebook group

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

no you wouldn't ,and how the hell would you know you may have been traumatised if you had seen the lamb slaughtered which was not the case
this sort of attitude is exactly what's wrong imo with modern parenting ideas .Some people think we must at all costs protect the children ,don't let them see,hear or learn about anything that is a little unsavoury
i think children are protected far too much and not given enough credit for the ability to handle situations. For gods sake i used to watch my nan knecking chickens and we didn't live anywhere near a farm ,we lived in the black country in the 70's
so i must oh so traumatised ...absolute load of poppycock from overbearing and over protective parents

---------- Post added at 18:26 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------




what rubbish ,what absolute crap ,i'm going to sign up and leave my own personal poem

I'd know because I'm an animal lover and always have been. Who are you to question that?

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

That statement puts you in the same group as the people who posted on the Facebook group

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------



I'd know because I'm an animal lover and always have been. Who are you to question that?

yeah so am i but i am also realistic and being a animal lover does not give anyone the right to hound a perfectly good teacher out of her job

and by the way you would not know if you were truly traumatised as that would be self diagnosis of a mental condition ,also that word is much overused by people who think a footballer who scores a winning goal is a hero ..wrong a child who takes part in raising a sheep is NOT traumatised when one day it is not there anymore ,they might be a tad upset but they will get over it if parents let them work it out for themselves and stop wrapping them in cotton wool

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by martyh

yeah so am i but i am also realistic and being a animal lover does not give anyone the right to hound a perfectly good teacher out of her job

and by the way you would not know if you were truly traumatised as that would be self diagnosis of a mental condition ,also that word is much overused by people who think a footballer who scores a winning goal is a hero ..wrong a child who takes part in raising a sheep is NOT traumatised when one day it is not there anymore ,they might be a tad upset but they will get over it if parents let them work it out for themselves and stop wrapping them in cotton wool

some wont get over it

it never bothered me but my mother still wont touch pork after seeing one killed as a child on a farm where she was brought up !

which is why it shouldn't be done in school it is not about cotton wool its about making a choice as a parent when its time for things for a particular child

lol most would laugh at me being called protective

Originally Posted by rogermevans

some wont get over it

it never bothered me but my mother still wont touch pork after seeing one killed as a child on a farm where she was brought up !

which is why it shouldn't be done in school it is not about cotton wool its about making a choice as a parent when its time for things for a particular child

lol most would laugh at me being called protective

that's the point though some people are behaving like the children saw the animal slaughtered ..they didn't they knew it was going to be because it had been talked about since the animal arrived

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by martyh

flyboy , you keep denying the facts why?

the children DID vote

No, fourteen children voted. It is a lot easier to manipulate a small group of childen, than it is to control the whole school.

the children DID know what was going to happen to the lambs

And how do you know this for sure?

the parents at the school DID also know the purpose of the exercise

Apparently not all of them.

the schools governing body DID approve the exercise

Not relevant, seeing as it was unlikely to affect them personally.

these facts cannot be denied they did happen whether you like it or not

These "facts" can clearly be challenged, without any evidence to support them.

and what "extreme values"has the teacher got ?

The thought that she can ride roughshod over the feelings of seven year old children, is one extreme value I would have thought.

do you even know if their are any vegetarian children at the school and what has that got to do with anything anyway

Come on, out of two hundred and thirty-five there are bound to be some. But then, going by assumptions being made here, is that the mother of one of the pupils is spearheading the campaign and she has been classed as an animal rights nutter.

there are other lessons that the children are learning as well besides the food chain ,what about caring for animals ,the cycle of life and death ,basic principles of democracy .The children have learned these lessons in a real world situation not the wishy washy way taught in inner city schools

There are other more effective ways of teaching about the circle of life, it doesn't have to involve the slaughter of the animal they have come to love and care for. If you belive that they should be taught this, why stop at voting on a slaughter. Why not take them to the abattoir and watch the animal bleed to death. Surely that would abate your oppostion to wishy-washy teaching.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by martyh

that's the point though some people are behaving like the children saw the animal slaughtered ..they didn't they knew it was going to be because it had been talked about since the animal arrived

it doesn't mater whether they did or didnt either way some children are not going to take it well

which is why it shouldn't be done in school unless they get specific informed consent from every parent and child in the school

and as to seeing it killed IF this is really about understanding the food chain then that should be part of the exercise which again imho puts into the secondary school not not junior school

Originally Posted by Flyboy

No, fourteen children voted. It is a lot easier to manipulate a small group of childen, than it is to control the whole school.

how do you know the teacher manipulated the pupils that's an accusation that needs some evidence



And how do you know this for sure?

other posters have supplied copius links for you to read but you continue to insert "flyboy facts as appropriate"



Apparently not all of them.

most did a very small minority didn't and if they felt that strongly about it then they should have removed their children from school and made formal protests as is their right



Not relevant, seeing as it was unlikely to affect them personally.

how can the governing bodies opinion be "not relevant"



These "facts" can clearly be challenged, without any evidence to support them.


again...read the links from parents with children at the school ,i supplied direct quotes from 3 parents who all said that the matter had been thoroughly discussed in meetings BEFORE the lambs were bought

The thought that she can ride roughshod over the feelings of seven year old children, is one extreme value I would have thought.

"Ride roughshod over the feelings of seven year old children " where do get that from ,your not commenting on a pro tory thread now you know


Come on, out of two hundred and thirty-five there are bound to be some. But then, going by assumptions being made here, is that the mother of one of the pupils is spearheading the campaign and she has been classed as an animal rights nutter.

not sure about animal rights nutter but definately a nutter and even if there are vegetarians at the school, so what ,they are'nt the majority and have no right to enforce views on the majority who have democratically decided a course of action


There are other more effective ways of teaching about the circle of life, it doesn't have to involve the slaughter of the animal they have come to love and care for. If you belive that they should be taught this, why stop at voting on a slaughter. Why not take them to the abattoir and watch the animal bleed to death. Surely that would abate your oppostion to wishy-washy teaching.

what more effective way is there of teaching than showing things first hand in real life where appropriate and i believe this was appropriate ..especially in a farming community

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

it doesn't mater whether they did or didnt either way some children are not going to take it well

which is why it shouldn't be done in school unless they get specific informed consent from every parent and child in the school

and as to seeing it killed IF this is really about understanding the food chain then that should be part of the exercise which again imho puts into the secondary school not not junior school

Well said

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

not sure about animal rights nutter but definately a nutter and even if there are vegetarians at the school, so what ,they are'nt the majority and have no right to enforce views on the majority who have democratically decided a course of action

Actually thats how democracy works, the minorities do have a say.

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

Well said

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------



Actually thats how democracy works, the minorities do have a say.

democracy noun (democracies) 1 a form of government in which the people govern themselves or elect representatives to govern them. 2 a country, state or other body with such a form of government.
ETYMOLOGY: 16c: from French démocratie, from Greek demos people + kratos strength.Chambers

Nothing about minorities there..

A minority appear to have a say in screwing up their children's(and others) education.They also have set out to hound a perfectly good and respected teacher out of her job by setting up a Facebook entry.

Hardly democratic.