BT Open Up Ducting - Look To Use Virgin's

[Ignitionnet]

It should be noted that this refers to access to VM ducting, not to forcing VM to offer a wholesale product using the network itself, though the BT model isn't typical in this regard as the entire point of BT being forced to wholesale was to ensure other operators could take lumps out of their market share.

Of course it would be better for VM to keep things as they are as it reduces the investment they need to make to stay competitive and allows them to be relatively inefficient and/or keep a higher profit margin than they would with a fully competitive market however it increasingly looks as though there won't be any choice in the matter for them sooner or later.

VM won't get to charge whomever a fortune for access to their ducting to prevent competition, rates would be regulated to ensure this doesn't happen.

Your comment regarding what BT's rivals want and don't is not correct. These operators most certainly want access to Virgin's ducts, Sky have commented on it in the past. There will be areas covered by telegraph poles by BT but which will have VM ducting present. There will also be BT ducting that is full up while there may be capacity within the VM ducts.

It will also be a pain in the backside to VM and require some additional work on their part to administrate. Another bonus from the competition's point of view.

I am unsure of the relevance of this alleged exodus from BT to VM National, especially given that VM National had been losing broadband customers for 6 of the previous 7 quarters prior to some recovery in the most recent one, or BT to other operators to the issue at hand.

[cabletel]

Understand BT being forced to open up their ducting and network (LLU) to competitors as you must remember their network was built with PUBLIC money back when BT were nationalised and had the monopoly.

But NTL/VM spent an absolute fortune (almost putting themselves under) digging up those streets, laying those cables and buying competitors existing cable networks in order to produce a solid Fibre network and gain an advantage. I don't see why they should be under any obligation to open up their network to competitors.

The BT network covers more areas and includes those areas that have cable access so i dont see why VM ducting is necessary to use. I think the government should simply open access to BT ducting and give some sort of incentive to companys to lay further ducting/expand their network to areas where as yet access to broadband is unavailable or limited to particularly low speeds.

[Turkey Machine]

If VM can use BT ducting to provide an on-net cable service, power to the people! We've been bitching and moaning around here that we can't get cable, and BT is now welcoming with open arms other providers to use their free (as in, not used) space.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by cabletel

Understand BT being forced to open up their ducting and network (LLU) to competitors as you must remember their network was built with PUBLIC money back when BT were nationalised and had the monopoly.

This network was, however, purchased with private money. The reason for the required unbundling of loops is due to BT's natural monopoly and ensuring they can't abuse it with vertical integration not to do with where the money comes from to build.

But NTL/VM spent an absolute fortune (almost putting themselves under) digging up those streets, laying those cables and buying competitors existing cable networks in order to produce a solid Fibre network and gain an advantage. I don't see why they should be under any obligation to open up their network to competitors.

Not really anyone's problem apart from their own that ntl / Telewest massively overspent and rushed their expansions. They are now profitable and have assets which are desirable to others.

BT have, since privatisation, spent tens of billions on broadband networks, core network upgrades, etc and continue to do so while being required to open up these new networks to competitors. By the above argument they should only be required to open up what was there before privatisation. It's not an argument that works and cable has had their own monopoly quite long enough now.

The BT network covers more areas and includes those areas that have cable access so i dont see why VM ducting is necessary to use. I think the government should simply open access to BT ducting and give some sort of incentive to companys to lay further ducting/expand their network to areas where as yet access to broadband is unavailable or limited to particularly low speeds.

As per my previous post:

There will be areas covered by telegraph poles by BT but which will have VM ducting present. There will also be BT ducting that is full up while there may be capacity within the VM duct

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Turkey Machine

If VM can use BT ducting to provide an on-net cable service, power to the people! We've been bitching and moaning around here that we can't get cable, and BT is now welcoming with open arms other providers to use their free (as in, not used) space.

If VM even contemplate putting coax into BT's ducting they deserve a slap

[Ignitionnet]

FYI - Virgin appear to be hiring people to design a wholesale cable product.

[Rik]

Heres an interesting comment from VM last year.

"We do not believe there is currently a strong regulatory or policy justification for such an intervention. Ofcom has previously explicitly stated that they do not consider there to be a case for mandated open access to the cable platform and we remain focused on delivering our own market leading services," it said in a statement.

Have things changed considerably then for OFCOM to take a different direction with this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8035902.stm

[sollp]

Personally i can't see this including the local access network as alot of the ducting is meant for the local CATV network, the main fibre routes have been designed to bypass this within the same trench so as to keep them sort of separate.

Now in many cities around the country the space within the pavements must be at bursting point with little or no room to expand or build new ducting within the pavements so i could see why this is being pushed by BT as VM have alot of ducting along with other operators that could be used to pull more fibre to expand the BT network with the intention of fibre to cab/home ect. So i would say it's in the interest of BT to force coerce the others into doing this.

VM in my opinion still have alot to get out of the CATV network and have only just been able to start doing this. With analogue being switched off freeing up more bandwidth on the DS, upgrades to improve the US i can't see why VM should or would want to do this. As has already been stated, the sharing of ductwork and fibre cables has been going on for years anyway.

[Ignitionnet]

The whole point of this is to get at access network ducting regardless of what it's meant for sollp. BT have minimal interest in VM's core network ducting.

It's debatable how much life there is left in VM's CATV network. In some areas it's a steaming pile of poop that hasn't been getting upgrades just analogue switch off and already cable operators are looking at migration strategies to FTTP and have for a while.

http://www.aurora.com/site/applications.an?li=a-fd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Frequency_over_Glass

[tvtimes]

I was watching BBC news a few days back and Gordon Brown was doing a press conference. He said he plans on investing more than a billion pound into superfast BB by the end of 2012 and he expects that by 2017 he expects everyone in the country to have access to superfast BB. Would that mean the government are investing in BT to roll their fibre network? What exactly are Gordons plans anyone know?

[Ignitionnet]

It's part of the Digital Economy Bill.

[tvtimes]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

It's part of the Digital Economy Bill.

I don't really understand still from that. How exactly are they planning on providing superfast BB?

[graf]

Originally Posted by tvtimes

I don't really understand still from that. How exactly are they planning on providing superfast BB?

Not sur eif it ispart of that bill or not, but I thought it was the 50p tax on EVERY phone line in the UK, that would be used to pay for this (probably given to BT)

[tvtimes]

That's what i was wondering if they were going to pass it onto BT so they can cable the rest of the country. If that is the case then i feel VM sky etc should benefit from this too and that BT should wholesale it. Or VM should be given some of it and they can pay their debt and open up their network to other providers.

They said on the news that they are going to tax everyone but only the rich are going to benefit from it?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by tvtimes

That's what i was wondering if they were going to pass it onto BT so they can cable the rest of the country. If that is the case then i feel VM sky etc should benefit from this too and that BT should wholesale it. Or VM should be given some of it and they can pay their debt and open up their network to other providers.

VM are just fine financially. The money won't be passed to anyone companies will be invited to bid for it. The networks built with the money must be open access as BT's networks are now.

Originally Posted by tvtimes

They said on the news that they are going to tax everyone but only the rich are going to benefit from it?

The funds will be subsidy for networks for the approximately 30% of the UK population that will not be covered by high speed broadband services through commercial roll out. Cable and BT's new fibre based services will cover about 60%. The remaining 10% are unlucky.

No-one with cable will benefit.

[*sloman*]

Originally Posted by m419

In the long run, it might be better for Virgin Media to keep it as it is for now, if they open up there network for others to use, they will charge less and Virgin Media will loose custom from its own customer base and possibly revenue.

Example:

Virgin Broadband 10MB alone: £18 per month

Then Virgin Media then allow say Easynet or TalkTalk to use the same network for the wholesale price of £5. Obviously Easynet and TalkTalk will sell it for £10, and Virgin will see customers flee to them and although technically, Virgin Media are still generating revenue from the customer by being on the network, Virgin Media will only get the wholesale rate and not the retail price as well.

Ok going by your example VM sell the lines to EasyNet/TalkTalk for £5, they sell this to the customer for £10

VM should still be quids in as they wont have to provide Customer/Technical phone support for these customers and if they did I'm sure they would charge a premium rate number to reclaim the costs.

They also wont have to install the equipment in the customers property and if they do I'm sure they will charge.

I'm sure there are various other costs they will save on.

I hope VM do do this and all the other providers. My work is still fed by Cable & Wireless (i thought they were merged with NTL back in the day, obviously not) we have 2xGigabit lines and various other fibre VPN to other sites/companies/services etc... so the infrastructure is already there in most cities.