Ban the burkha ?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Because the wearing of helmets,hoodies etc are not connected to religious beliefs.

That's what the debate is about. not just in here but all over. is it a religious thing, or is it just a personal choice.

I have posted quotes. one from a muslim herself that says it is choice that is the reason. not religion so much.

Originally Posted by danielf

It's probably because he is unable to think himself...

If he cannot 'think himself' why is he able to carry on the debate, countering and answering peoples questions?

Because he does not have a stack of reps maybe? Or maybe because he is not afraid to ask the questions he does?

I may not agree with some of his posts but i do respect him for posting them.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Because the wearing of helmets,hoodies etc are not connected to religious beliefs.

there are countless quotes on the web from muslims stating that the wearing of a burka is not compulsory it is a choice made by the woman or forced on her by her husband

Originally Posted by martyh

i will repeat what i said earlier just for Forevers benefit .Why should women wearing a burka be excempt from removing the facial covering in sensitive areas like banks/post offices /airports ect when other people have to remove helmets /hoodies ect

I actually agree with you (if done in a sensitive way, like they do at airport security) - I don't agree with the concept of the burqa (I think it represents an oppressive paternalistic society, which devalues women and treats them as possessions), but I also don't agree with telling people what to wear, especially when there doesn't seem to have been mass outbreaks of people wearing burqas committing crimes (one or two, yes, but not to the vast extent of people wearing crash-helmets or ski-masks).

I think Nigel is going for cheap sensationalist headlines, and as the Times put in on the 16th of this month, under the heading "Veil of Ignorance"

The reasons it gives for its policy are transparently disingenuous. They claim that the burka marginalises women. This is a new concern for UKIP. It is, after all, the party of Godfrey Bloom, the MEP who says that “any small businessman or woman who employs a woman of child-bearing age needs their head examined”. Perhaps Mr Bloom, who thinks that women do not clean behind the fridge enough, worries that their burkas are getting in the way.

UKIP argues further that the burka has no place in Islam and that the religion does not require it. The Times had not hitherto realised that Nigel Farage was an authority on such matters, or that the party leader Lord Pearson of Rannoch, who was visited by God when on the operating table in 1977, thereby gained not only his Christian faith but also a mastery of the Koran. This newly acquired scholarship notwithstanding, the religious insights of politicians are entirely irrelevant when judging the right of British citizens to dress as they wish.

The most offensive UKIP assertion is that wearing the burka is inconsistent with British values. Advocates of the policy then point out (without irony) that the French, whose example is rarely cited elsewhere in UKIP literature, are trying to implement a similar policy.

What is inconsistent with British values is picking on people quietly going about their business in religious garb of their own choice and banning it. If UKIP properly understood this country, it would appreciate that.

Originally Posted by Gary L

That's what the debate is about. not just in here but all over. is it a religious thing, or is it just a personal choice.

I have posted quotes. one from a muslim herself that says it is choice that is the reason. not religion so much.

It's a matter of semantics among Muslims..they have differences of opinions about how they interpret the Koran just as Christians have differences of opinions about interpreting the meanings in the Bible. The fact is some Muslim women regard it as a religious requirement to cover them selves with this garment,others do not.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

It's a matter of semantics among Muslims..they have differences of opinions about how they interpret the Koran just as Christians have differences of opinions about interpreting the meanings in the Bible. The fact is some Muslim women regard it as a religious requirement to cover them selves with this garment,others do not.

Ah, but that is introducing shades of cultural gradiations and variances in religious interpretation into the discussion, rather than it being simply right or wrong.

For instance, some Catholic women always cover their heads in Church, but some don't - who is right (or is it a matter of choice)? Most CofE churches allow other Christians to take communion at Mass, but Catholics (the last time I attended), don't.

There are variations in all walks of life and faiths, and trying to make them binary just to back up a proposition just doesn't work.

Originally Posted by martyh

there are countless quotes on the web from muslims stating that the wearing of a burka is not compulsory it is a choice made by the woman or forced on her by her husband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34948421-post155.html

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

It's a matter of semantics among Muslims..they have differences of opinions about how they interpret the Koran just as Christians have differences of opinions about interpreting the meanings in the Bible. The fact is some Muslim women regard it as a religious requirement to cover them selves with this garment,others do not.

I know. and there has to be some that say it's their own choice rather than say she's made to wear it.

[Russ]

It doesn't matter how much logic or common sense you use, when you're up against the attitude of "I don't like it so ban it" you're never going to get anywhere.

[chris9991]

If it was to be banned what would be the punishment? Would it be a fine or a custodial sentence?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by chris9991

If it was to be banned what would be the punishment? Would it be a fine or a custodial sentence?

I assume those in favour of the ban would want them deported or sent back to Muslimia.

Originally Posted by Gary L

I know. and there has to be some that say it's their own choice rather than say she's made to wear it.

yes and there are some that get stoned for not wearing it .
We all seem to be in agreement ..including Maggie...that the burka is a voluntary item of clothing in this country so there should be no objection to removal in some places

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by chris9991

If it was to be banned what would be the punishment? Would it be a fine or a custodial sentence?

The french will take away their rights. we'll probably give them an ASBO.

---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

I assume those in favour of the ban would want them deported or sent back to Muslimia.

I suppose stoning isn't an option then?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I suppose stoning isn't an option then?

Whatever floats your boat.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

yes and there are some that get stoned for not wearing it .
We all seem to be in agreement ..including Maggie...that the burka is a voluntary item of clothing in this country so there should be no objection to removal in some places

Right then. where do we all sign?