Ban the burkha ?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

Yes, I agree. Islamic experts such as yourself are rarely wrong on such matters.

I know.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I'm sure there are some that do. if it's not them that are, then it can be the husband that makes her wear it for that reason.

Having spoken to my sister who works with abused women, she has told me that some women she deals with were forced to wear revealing items of clothing in their relationships, by their partners. Shall we, based on your point above, ban high heels and mini skirts?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Having spoken to my sister who works with abused women, she has told me that some women she deals with were forced to wear revealing items of clothing in their relationships, by their partners.

Is that inside or outside the home? wouldn't that be offensive to other Muslims?
I find that hard to believe if it's true. it's quite shocking.

Shall we, based on your point above, ban high heels and mini skirts?

No way!

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Is that inside or outside the home? wouldn't that be offensive to other Muslims?
I find that hard to believe if it's true. it's quite shocking.



No way!

Why do you think I'm talking about muslim women? Are you saying non muslim men can't force women to wear clothes? I said my sister works with abused women - I didn't mention their religious backgrounds. You really have a thing against muslims don't you.

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Why do you think I'm talking about muslim women? Are you saying non muslim men can't force women to wear clothes? I said my sister works with abused women - I didn't mention their religious backgrounds. You really have a thing against muslims don't you.

Him and a few others. Current Affairs is pretty much the Muslim Bashing forum.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Why do you think I'm talking about muslim women? Are you saying non muslim men can't force women to wear clothes? I said my sister works with abused women - I didn't mention their religious backgrounds.

I had an idea you weren't talking about Muslims. I thought you had to be to be commenting about the oppressive thing in Muslim culture.
now I know it was a trick question I feel tricked

You really have a thing against muslims don't you.

Ooh, he's off

Originally Posted by Chris

Well I'll try to be gentle ...

I think the fact that you even pose the question, "how do you know they're not men?" demonstrates the ludicrous depths the debate has sunk to. And by that I don't mean you personally are dragging it down, but that this is where we as a nation have come to, and it's a sad thing.

Stop and think about it for a minute. We are talking about an item of female attire. Why is it reasonable to even ask whether a man might be hiding underneath it? Why would a man be doing that? Has a security guard ever had his cash delivery stolen by a robber disguised as a muslim woman? And if that has ever happened, what proportion of offences were committed that way, compared to more traditional means of surprising and disguising, such as roaring up alongside him in a Ford Cortina wearing a balaclava?

If Arthur had been carrying a substantial amount of cash, I would have expected him to have been alert for all the more common ways that someone might try to steal it from him to the extent that a load of burkha-wearing women at the bus stop shouldn't have made him any more alert than he already was.

You are right, by the way, it is not unnatural to feel threatened, but I think people need to face up to the actual reason why they feel threatened. If you are made uneasy about a woman in a burkha, it's just plain old cultural unease that arises from an encounter with the unfamiliar. That's not shameful or racist, it's just human. But instead of trying to displace those feelings and turn them into righteous indignation ("There could be anyone under there! It might be a man out to blow me up or rob me!"), why not use them as a vehicle to de-mystify what is unfamiliar. We all have access to the internet, there's plenty of background reading you could do.

At the end of it all, you don't have to believe the burkha is a good thing for a woman - I certainly don't - but you might just understand why she's wearing it, and accept her right to do so.

Thankyou for taking the time to reply. I think the point I was trying to make was that unfortunately some, not all, people are less than honest in this day and age and therefore may use this as a way of disguising themselves. If I remember correctly, was there not a case where a wanted man used one of these to evade airport security?

Whilst I agree with your point about the Cortina and balaclavas, I think that in the current climate of fear etc people could use the aforementioned item of womens clothing to commit crime. Maybe in a way that will allow them to go unchallenged until it is too late for fear of being accused as islamophobic / racist etc.

I'll go back to lurking now...

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Damien

Current Affairs is pretty much the Muslim Bashing forum.

I would say that wasn't really the case. if you study the subjects then you'll notice it's the most debated. with a lot of people not actually debating or giving their opinion on the subject in question.

most just taking offence for someone else and throwing racist accusations around about other OP's that are willing to discuss and debate the subject.

Originally Posted by Gary L

I would say that wasn't really the case. if you study the subjects then you'll notice it's the most debated. with a lot of people not actually debating or giving their opinion on the subject in question.

most just taking offence for someone else and throwing racist accusations around about other OP's that are willing to discuss and debate the subject.

There are constantly topics commenting on Muslims and Islam in a negative light. Just do a search for Muslim on the forum and you'll see what I mean. As soon as this topic ends another one will be started. At any one time there seems to be a ongoing topic, sometimes more, about something negative involving Muslims.

Was it only yesterday/Sunday you started the topic about the loophole for Islamic Schools which was actually a loophole for any school whose pupils only attended a certain amount of hours?

You'll find most of these people aren't 'taking offence for other people' but are themselves offended at the constant vilification of a entire group of people based on their religion.

Originally Posted by Tuftus

Thankyou for taking the time to reply. I think the point I was trying to make was that unfortunately some, not all, people are less than honest in this day and age and therefore may use this as a way of disguising themselves. If I remember correctly, was there not a case where a wanted man used one of these to evade airport security?

Whilst I agree with your point about the Cortina and balaclavas, I think that in the current climate of fear etc people could use the aforementioned item of womens clothing to commit crime. Maybe in a way that will allow them to go unchallenged until it is too late for fear of being accused as islamophobic / racist etc.

I'll go back to lurking now...

i would agree with that statement ,a Burka can be used as a tool of the trade for some criminals ,the same as a balaclava,crash helmet or mask ,that does not mean it should be banned outright the same as crash helmets ,balclavas and masks haven't been outright, just in sensitive areas were face covering would be seen as suspicious behaviour .There are plenty of crimes commited with the criminal using a burka as a diguise because they know that ,that is what they can get away with at the moment

Originally Posted by Damien

There are constantly topics commenting on Muslims and Islam in a negative light. Just do a search for Muslim on the forum and you'll see what I mean. As soon as this topic ends another one will be started. At any one time there seems to be a ongoing topic, sometimes more, about something negative involving Muslims.

Was it only yesterday/Sunday you started the topic about the loophole for Islamic Schools which was actually a loophole for any school whose pupils only attended a certain amount of hours?

You'll find most of these people aren't 'taking offence for other people' but are themselves offended at the constant vilification of a entire group of people based on their religion.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Damien

You'll find most of these people aren't 'taking offence for other people' but are themselves offended at the constant vilification of a entire group of people based on their religion.

But it's not always the entire group of people. and it's not always really about their religion.
if we discuss muslim terrorists it's about a select few of them. a select few extremists. but it's oh no they're picking on all the muslims again.

Muslims are in the news all the time. there's a war that will bring up the discussion of it. there's recent terrorism and probable terrorism. there's immigration. there's hostility from 'both' sides. all sorts of reasons why it's in the media all the time.

all sorts of reasons why it's a topic of discussion in everyday life.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Gary L

all sorts of reasons why it's a topic of discussion in everyday life.

And usually only one reason why 99% of 'Muslim' threads are negative.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

And usually only one reason why 99% of 'Muslim' threads are negative.

What reason is that?

---------- Post added at 15:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:12 ----------

IN the mainly Muslim enclaves of Derby, near my childhood home, you now see women hidden behind the full-length (burka) robe, their faces completely shielded from view.
In London, I see an increasing number of young girls, aged four and five, being made to wear the hijab (head covering) to school.
Thanks to fundamentalist Muslims and "hate" preachers working in Britain, the veiling of women is suddenly all-pervasive and promoted as a basic religious right. We are led to believe we must live with this in the name of "tolerance".




And yet, as a British Muslim woman, I abhor the practice and am calling on the Government here to follow the lead of the French proposal and ban the burka in Britain.
I believe the covering of one's face in public is dangerous and, for security reasons, should be banned from British streets.
Nowhere in the Koran does it state that a woman's face and body must be covered in a layer of heavy black cloth.
Instead, Muslim women should dress modestly, covering their arms and legs.
The burka is an imported Saudi Arabian tradition and the growing number of women veiling their faces in Britain is a sign of a creeping radicalisation which is not just regressive but oppressive and dangerous.
So what should we do in Britain? For decades, Muslim fundamentalists, using human-rights laws, have been allowed to get their own way.
It is now time for ministers and ordinary British Muslims to say enough is enough. For the sake of women and children, the Government here must ban the burka in public places. To do so is not racist, as extremists would have us believe, it is common sense.
In today's society. where we are threatened with terrorist acts, we should demand to see people's faces in public - so that we do not feel scared or frightened. It will only be a matter of time before extremists use the wearing of the burka to breach security and carry out attacks on innocent people.

[Pog66]

Originally Posted by Gary L

And yet, as a British Muslim woman, I abhor the practice and am calling on the Government here to follow the lead of the French proposal and ban the burka in Britain.
I believe the covering of one's face in public is dangerous and, for security reasons, should be banned from British streets.
Nowhere in the Koran does it state that a woman's face and body must be covered in a layer of heavy black cloth.
Instead, Muslim women should dress modestly, covering their arms and legs.
The burka is an imported Saudi Arabian tradition and the growing number of women veiling their faces in Britain is a sign of a creeping radicalisation which is not just regressive but oppressive and dangerous.
So what should we do in Britain? For decades, Muslim fundamentalists, using human-rights laws, have been allowed to get their own way.
It is now time for ministers and ordinary British Muslims to say enough is enough. For the sake of women and children, the Government here must ban the burka in public places. To do so is not racist, as extremists would have us believe, it is common sense.
In today's society. where we are threatened with terrorist acts, we should demand to see people's faces in public - so that we do not feel scared or frightened. It will only be a matter of time before extremists use the wearing of the burka to breach security and carry out attacks on innocent people.

Useful to have a link to original quote......I;m assuming you are not a British Muslim woman Gary?