Ban the burkha ?

[Peter_]

Anything that is intended to cover the face and be used to prevent a positive identification of a person should be banned, no ifs or buts can realistically be used in defence of deliberately hiding your face in public.

As for Arthurs crowd of women, they could have been of any age group and of any gender because the veil disguises the face, also a gang of women can just as easily attack a person.

[Tony.]

Originally Posted by martyh

spot the difference

Hmmm interesting but you forgot the notes

*24:30-31 Dressing modestly, therefore, is a trait of the believing men and women. The minimum requirements for a woman's dress is to lengthen her garment (33:59) and to cover her chest. Tyrannical Arab traditions have given a false impression that a woman must be covered from head to toe; such is not a Quranic or Islamic dress.

it's all down to how religious texts have been interpreted there are two different quotes from the same verse in the same book and they can be read totally different depending on how strict your teaching has been

[Arthurgray50@blu]

If l see females where they are wearing the burkas, it drives me mad, as l cannot understand them wearing it, l was told, it was there husbands don't like them to be seen by other men, can't be that bad looking can they.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by danielf

How many women in the UK actually wear a Bhurka or veil? According to the link posted it's 200,000. Wiki says there's around 2.4,000,000 Muslims in the UK, so that would mean 1 in 6 muslim women wear a bhurka or veil. Frankly, I find that hard to believe.

I mean, it's not as if women in Bhurkas are a common sight. Not around here anyway.

Been to Tower Hamlets recently?

Didn't think so

Originally Posted by Rob M

I can't believe I even bothered opening this thread to read it, I should have known better.....

Me too. Shoot me next time..and I'll return the favour.

---------- Post added at 01:03 ---------- Previous post was at 00:33 ----------

Look Folks Farage isn't saying the burkha should just be banned in banks and such places.He's saying it should be banned in all public spaces and in private spaces as well.

Now as far as I'm aware there is no ban on deerstalkers,balaclavas,stockings,hoodies and motorcycle helmets in all public spaces and private spaces at this present time nor does Farage actually ask for them to be banned as well.

So this is aimed purely against Muslim women.

Now I don't like the idea of the burkha and think it shouldn't be forced on anyone..however I don't think anyone should be banned from wearing them if they choose.

Mind I can't see what the fuss is about with the Naked Rambler either.Why should anyone be forced to wear clothes if they don't want to?

After all I don't have to look...

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Me too. Shoot me next time..and I'll return the favour.

---------- Post added at 01:03 ---------- Previous post was at 00:33 ----------

Look Folks Farage isn't saying the burkha should just be banned in banks and such places.He's saying it should be banned in all public spaces and in private spaces as well.

Now as far as I'm aware there is no ban on deerstalkers,balaclavas,stockings,hoodies and motorcycle helmets in all public spaces and private spaces at this present time nor does Farage actually ask for them to be banned as well.

So this is aimed purely against Muslim women.

“What we are saying is this is a symbol. It is a symbol of something that is used to oppress women. It is a symbol of an *increasingly divided Britain, and the real worry – and it isn’t just about what people wear – is we are heading towards a *situation where many of our cities are *ghettoised and there is even talk of Sharia law becoming part of British culture.�
France wants a ban on the veil – called a niqab – made law. Mr Farage said: “There is nothing extreme or radical or ridiculous about this, but we can’t go on living in a divided *society.�

If say they don't ban them as long as you take them off in public places where concealing your identity is either a threat or a security risk. would they? would that still go against their culture?

Now I don't like the idea of the burkha and think it shouldn't be forced on anyone..however I don't think anyone should be banned from wearing them if they choose.

Until everyone decided to wear one.

Mind I can't see what the fuss is about with the Naked Rambler either.Why should anyone be forced to wear clothes if they don't want to?

Think of the little boys and girls. somebody has to.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Look Folks Farage isn't saying the burkha should just be banned in banks and such places.He's saying it should be banned in all public spaces and in private spaces as well.

Now as far as I'm aware there is no ban on deerstalkers,balaclavas,stockings,hoodies and motorcycle helmets in all public spaces and private spaces at this present time nor does Farage actually ask for them to be banned as well.

So this is aimed purely against Muslim women.

Now I don't like the idea of the burkha and think it shouldn't be forced on anyone..however I don't think anyone should be banned from wearing them if they choose.

It's the usual "It doesn't directly affect me but I disagree with it so ban it" crowd.

Originally Posted by Tuftus

Why not, Chris?

If you cannot tell if they are a woman or indeed a man and there are ten of them, why is it unnatural to feel threatened?

What is to say that Arthur was not on the way back from the bank with a considerable sum of cash for example?

If I was in that scenario, I would certainly feel uneasy.



(awaits being beaten down by your much better debating skillz)

Well I'll try to be gentle ...

I think the fact that you even pose the question, "how do you know they're not men?" demonstrates the ludicrous depths the debate has sunk to. And by that I don't mean you personally are dragging it down, but that this is where we as a nation have come to, and it's a sad thing.

Stop and think about it for a minute. We are talking about an item of female attire. Why is it reasonable to even ask whether a man might be hiding underneath it? Why would a man be doing that? Has a security guard ever had his cash delivery stolen by a robber disguised as a muslim woman? And if that has ever happened, what proportion of offences were committed that way, compared to more traditional means of surprising and disguising, such as roaring up alongside him in a Ford Cortina wearing a balaclava?

If Arthur had been carrying a substantial amount of cash, I would have expected him to have been alert for all the more common ways that someone might try to steal it from him to the extent that a load of burkha-wearing women at the bus stop shouldn't have made him any more alert than he already was.

You are right, by the way, it is not unnatural to feel threatened, but I think people need to face up to the actual reason why they feel threatened. If you are made uneasy about a woman in a burkha, it's just plain old cultural unease that arises from an encounter with the unfamiliar. That's not shameful or racist, it's just human. But instead of trying to displace those feelings and turn them into righteous indignation ("There could be anyone under there! It might be a man out to blow me up or rob me!"), why not use them as a vehicle to de-mystify what is unfamiliar. We all have access to the internet, there's plenty of background reading you could do.

At the end of it all, you don't have to believe the burkha is a good thing for a woman - I certainly don't - but you might just understand why she's wearing it, and accept her right to do so.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Chris

At the end of it all, you don't have to believe the burkha is a good thing for a woman - I certainly don't - but you might just understand why she's wearing it, and accept her right to do so.

Sums it all up, hits the nail right on the head

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

It's the usual "It doesn't directly affect me but I disagree with it so ban it" crowd.

People cared about the welfare of the foxes, Russ.

---------- Post added at 09:43 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

Sums it all up, hits the nail right on the head

Not if she's wearing it to be oppressive, surely

[Julian]

I think banning things should be banned.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Gary L

People cared about the welfare of the foxes, Russ.

Foxes can still be hunted

Originally Posted by Gary L

Not if she's wearing it to be oppressive, surely

To be honest I've never ever heard of a Muslim woman wearing a burka to be oppressive.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

To be honest I've never ever heard of a Muslim woman wearing a burka to be oppressive.

I'm sure there are some that do. if it's not them that are, then it can be the husband that makes her wear it for that reason.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I'm sure there are some that do. if it's not them that are, then it can be the husband that makes her wear it for that reason.

Yes, I agree. Islamic experts such as yourself are rarely wrong on such matters.