Football : Season 2009/2010

Originally Posted by punky

Lerner is definitely the populist choice as Levy doesn't really ooze charisma.I was judging Levy purely on a business perspective.

Arsenal (Dein?) are responsible but I wouldn't say maverick. Wenger is shrewd in the markets (Adebayor, Toure, Viera, etc) but they never seem to have much money. They keep the club level (and delivering a stadium isn't easy) but they do have a lot more revenue than us with the Champions League.

They have quite a bit of money, it's that Wenger doesn't buy much and they have been paying back the Stadium debt in excesses of their commitments. A testament to the board is that Arsenal could afford to miss out on the Champions league

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...nger-transfers

In contrast Arsène Wenger is in a position of relative luxury, since the terms of his club's loans demand he spends the bulk of the money he raises in transfers. All transfer revenues are held in a special account created during negotiations with lenders over the refinancing of the club's £260m stadium loan and a minimum of 70% of this must either be retained or spent on transfers and contract renewals. Although the account's millions are at Wenger's disposal, the banks do hold a charge over it as security on the stadium.

He is sitting on a nice pile of cash. He just doesn't want to spend however much I want him to Buy De Rossi, Mexes and Hugo Lloris.

I would say Spurs/Arsenal's boards are close to terms of business acumen. Arsenal have successfully completed the stadium move and what was basically a rebirth of the club. Spurs board now have that test in front of them.

We're both pre-inclined to look favourably on our teams though I do concede a lot of Arsenal's stability and successful move is down to Wenger rather than the board. The guy should get massive 100ft tall statue dam it!

[punky]

Originally Posted by Damien

They have quite a bit of money, it's that Wenger doesn't buy much and they have been paying back the Stadium debt in excesses of their commitments. A testament to the board is that Arsenal could afford to miss out on the Champions league

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...nger-transfers



He is sitting on a nice pile of cash. He just doesn't want to spend however much I want him to Buy De Rossi, Mexes and Hugo Lloris.

I would say Spurs/Arsenal's boards are close to terms of business acumen. Arsenal have successfully completed the stadium move and what was basically a rebirth of the club. Spurs board now have that test in front of them.

We're both pre-inclined to look favourably on our teams though I do concede a lot of Arsenal's stability and successful move is down to Wenger rather than the board. The guy should get massive 100ft tall statue dam it!

Both better than Pompey anyway

I almost feel embarassed giving them £2m for Krancjar. We mugged them. How many £2m players have played as well as he has this season or even recently? Luckily Levy isn't as soppy as me.

Shows how desperate they were for money though and to get players off the wage bill. Scary to think that a couple of seasons ago they were solid mid-table and won the FA Cup. They also had a good team which they flogged a small fortune for. For that money to disappear almost instantly, takes some spectacular inepititude at club running.

Originally Posted by punky

Both better than Pompey anyway

And United, Liverpool, Cardiff, Notts County, Newcastle, Crystal Palace and many others I also would contest that Chelsea and City are not 'well run' since the books don't balance (which despite their protests, is important) but obviously it's not a problem for them.

I almost feel embarassed giving them £2m for Krancjar. We mugged them. How many £2m players have played as well as he has this season or even recently? Luckily Levy isn't as soppy as me.

Pfft! Levy's job to look after his club not Portsmouth. He can't help the fact they are run by idiots.

Shows how desperate they were for money though and to get players off the wage bill. Scary to think that a couple of seasons ago they were solid mid-table and won the FA Cup. They also had a good team which they flogged a small fortune for. For that money to disappear almost instantly, takes some spectacular inepititude at club running.

Look at Leeds! There are clubs all over the place which serve as warning to 'living the dream' but clubs and the FA don't take note. Liverpool and United do risk years in the wilderness unless something changes (Although United will be not a Leeds style crisis in the unlikely they even have a crisis)

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Russ

United to raise £500m:

Maybe we'll see a decent striker brought in now? And a world-class keeper?

Wouldn't bank on it, the gnomes kids will probably end up borrowing it, how they were ever allowed into the ground let alone the board room is beyond me

each of Malcolm Glazer's five sons and one daughter, all of whom are directors of Red Football Limited, each personally borrowed about £1.66m from the club, a total of £10m.

Added together, the management fees, consultancy agreement maximum and the £10m the six family members actually borrowed from United make a total of £22.9m paid to the family and their affiliated companies in three and a half years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...d-glazers-debt


Manchester United could cash in on star striker Wayne Rooney to help ease the club's debts. Spanish giants Real Madrid and Barcelona are considering £70m bids for the England international.
Full story: The Sun

Yes, Anyway they are raising £500 million to pay off debts they currently have of way over that. So all they are doing to lowering their interest repayments. United will be in just as much debt as they are in now.

[punky]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Manchester United could cash in on star striker Wayne Rooney to help ease the club's debts. Spanish giants Real Madrid and Barcelona are considering £70m bids for the England international.
Full story: The Sun

I did wonder about that. Without selling Ronaldo (which was a fluke really) they would have made a £30m loss. And that is with winning the EPL and finalists in the CL. So there isn't much more revenue streams. They are already out of the FA cup. even if they repeat their success they are on target for a big loss.

I thought they'd have to consider selling players but never thought that Rooney would get £70m from Spain. I think Rooney has an EPL limit of around £30m-40m which only leaves Chelsea as he won't go to Citeh and United won't sell him there. They don't really have any other assests. Berbatov has gone backwards and probably only worth £15m-£20m. Valencia has done a job but not set anything alight. So he's on evens at around £15m. Ferdinand is 31 and continually crocked so not even Citeh would pay £30m for him again. Giggs and Scholes are going to be pensioned off. Brown and Vidic are probably under £10m each. The rest are kids.

Unless revenue is increased (i.e. high ticket/merchandise prices or negotiating rights on the stadium) over a long-term stratergy, I really can't see much changing. Not even if they won back-to-back triples.

Originally Posted by Damien

Yes, Anyway they are raising £500 million to pay off debts they currently have of way over that. So all they are doing to lowering their interest repayments. United will be in just as much debt as they are in now.

Worth pointing out that by re-financing the lot they are lowering the interest of some payments but raising it of others. They really are borrowing from Peter to pay Paul.

Originally Posted by punky

I did wonder about that. Without selling Ronaldo (which was a fluke really) they would have made a £30m loss. And that is with winning the EPL and finalists in the CL. So there isn't much more revenue streams. They are already out of the FA cup. even if they repeat their success they are on target for a big loss.

Massive lose because their debt is higher than last year so their interest payments are higher. They are going to lose a lot of money and any player purchases would be a stupid decision. They need to sell!.

I thought they'd have to consider selling players but never thought that Rooney would get £70m from Spain. I think Rooney has an EPL limit of around £30m-40m which only leaves Chelsea as he won't go to Citeh and United won't sell him there. They don't really have any other assests. Berbatov has gone backwards and probably only worth £15m-£20m. Valencia has done a job but not set anything alight. So he's on evens at around £15m. Ferdinand is 31 and continually crocked so not even Citeh would pay £30m for him again. Giggs and Scholes are going to be pensioned off. Brown and Vidic are probably under £10m each. The rest are kids.

I don't think any club in England will buy Rooney. Your right that only Chelsea would even think of it. Berbatov at 15m to 20m is being generous if you ask me. I would say around 10 million.

Unless revenue is increased (i.e. high ticket/merchandise prices or negotiating rights on the stadium) over a long-term stratergy, I really can't see much changing. Not even if they won back-to-back triples.

They have already doubled the ticket prices.

Worth pointing out that by re-financing the lot they are lowering the interest of some payments but raising it of others. They really are borrowing from Peter to pay Paul.

Basically it's like Ocean Finance

[sherer]

I mentioned to someone today if you sold the stadium, all the players and everything else I still can't see it being worth £800m which is the cost of the debt.

The only way I can see to clear that is for the Glazers to put in some of their own money although as mentioned above they seem to be taking it out at the moment

[punky]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think any club in England will buy Rooney. Your right that only Chelsea would even think of it. Berbatov at 15m to 20m is being generous if you ask me. I would say around 10 million.

I was trying to be generous and give them the benefit of the doubt. Berbatov's trouble is that he's a confidence player. He needs to be both happy and molly-coddled to get the best out of him, which isn't really Ferguson's style.

I don't doubt in the right set-up he could play again like he did at Spurs.

[TheDaddy]

Sol Campbell could make an appearence for Arsenal reserves against West Ham reserves tonight....

Doesn't look good for Harry Rednapp's case...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8454317.stm

[Matty_]

Originally Posted by sherer

The only way I can see to clear that is for the Glazers to put in some of their own money although as mentioned above they seem to be taking it out at the moment

I can see that happening around the same time Alex Ferguson puts some of his money in, i.e. when hell freezes over!

Really most off these `American Investors` are only after one thing, and that`s to line their pockets even more. They don`t know the first thing about soccer but see the huge revenue streams from Sky, merchandise, etc!

Personally i wouldn`t trust any of them with a barge pole, them two characters at Liverpool don`t even talk to each other, what sort of footing is that for owning a football club.
Many people i know are Man U fans and at the time thought Martin Edwards was a bit of a jerk, but boy they wish he was still at the healm now. The fact Utd have won 3 consecutive titles and done well in the various cups has made life a lot easier for the Glazers.

Also it made me laugh to hear Utd where going to a training camp in Qatar (presumably to get some rich arabs to buy the bonds), when not long ago Ferguson was slagging of the FA for there money making jaunt to the middle east

[punky]

Originally Posted by sherer

I mentioned to someone today if you sold the stadium, all the players and everything else I still can't see it being worth £800m which is the cost of the debt

The club as a whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Forbes rates it as around $1800m (the world's richest). Ultimately you need to times the number of shares by the current value to get a market estimate.

I don't know exactly how the debt figures in that. The quickest solution would be for an Arab to come in and clear the debt back to square 1 and go from there. The United fans I know of I don't think would appreciate an Arab owner. Then again wither their situation I don't think they have much choice.

[Niles Crane]

Ignoring the real issue being discussed for a moment, this is quite odd. Look what Adebyaor is wearing in this interview:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPR7jHwc9Fo

[Kymmy]

So are you rying to tell us that everytime a player switches sides he's gotta change who he supports in real life??

There's been lots of ManU players who have been lifetime City, liverpool, chelsea and arsenal supporters for example. I'm sure that it's the same with any club.

Also Adebayor idolised Kanu whilst Kanu played for arsenal this might be why he supports them. I honestly don;t see the big deal here

[Russ]

If he supports Arsenal it makes you wonder why he ran half the pitch to celebrate scoring a goal in front of their supporters.