This one's going down - Page 33

Derek · 30-12-2009, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova

They really need to get real as no one has the right to kill because they want the kudos of an arrest.

Yeah. Every cop gets a bonus when they get an arrest, if they manage to get two in a day they get a days extra holiday.

It wasn't about kudos, he was doing a job, which by all accounts, he was very good at and due to a tragic combination of circumstances someone died. He never set out that day to kill someone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova

He killed and was found rightfully guilty in a court of law and duly sentenced to 3 years.

Yes and now he is being treated differently to other prisoners. He is being singled out for harsher treatment which regardless of your views on the conviction and sentence is not right.

Gary L · 30-12-2009, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

and due to a tragic combination of circumstances someone died. He never set out that day to kill someone.

Which is the case with many murderers and drunk drivers.

Derek · 30-12-2009, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Which is the case with many murderers and drunk drivers.

And? Did he pick up a knife and stab her? Did I miss the bit when he went through a bottle of vodka before his shift?

Tragic accident. He was convicted and sentenced.

Now he is not being given the same treatment as other prisoners. That is not right.

30-12-2009, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

Yeah. Every cop gets a bonus when they get an arrest, if they manage to get two in a day they get a days extra holiday.

It wasn't about kudos, he was doing a job, which by all accounts, he was very good at and due to a tragic combination of circumstances someone died. He never set out that day to kill someone.

Yes and now he is being treated differently to other prisoners. He is being singled out for harsher treatment which regardless of your views on the conviction and sentence is not right.

Does this case make you feel vunerable Derek? surely you do not think coppers should not be held accountable for their actions?

He may well be treated harsher than "some" other prisoners but I am sure plenty of other prisoners are treated harsher than him.

not many deaths in RTAs are deliberate are they? That is why its causing Death by Dangerous driving and not murder or manslaughter as the act was an accident but caused by negligence on the side of the copper.

Like it or not he was found guilty and all the arguements in the world are not going to change that. You personally do not like it cuz he is part of the old boys network

Derek · 30-12-2009, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by zing

Does this case make you feel vunerable Derek? surely you do not think coppers should not be held accountable for their actions?

No but I think sometimes the public don't realise the pressures and split second decisions that need to be made on a daily basis and will be endlessly gone over by armchair experts if you get it wrong.
It is a risky job, the same way firemen and ambulance drivers get involved in accidents when people die.

I still think his actions that night were acceptable and don't think anything anyone can say will change that. So do the vast majority of cops I know including a number of very highly trained traffic officers and driving instructors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zing

Like it or not he was found guilty and all the arguements in the world are not going to change that. You personally do not like it cuz he is part of the old boys network

I don't like the verdict but I accept it. I don't like the way that the probation service changed their mind due to some bad headlines.

Flyboy · 30-12-2009, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova

THey should be able to comprehend what this man has done and how wrong it was and why therefore he deserved to be jailed.

Many people in this thread say that they would feel different when asked what would you want to happen if she was your daughter.

But because she is not their daughter they then continue to say that he should not have been jailed and try to give supposedly valid reasons why he can drive around with scant disregard for public safety at a ridiculous speed on a ordinary road.

They really need to get real as no one has the right to kill because they want the kudos of an arrest.

He killed and was found rightfully guilty in a court of law and duly sentenced to 3 years.

As well as some on this thread actually trying to blame the child for getting herself killed.

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

Yeah. Every cop gets a bonus when they get an arrest, if they manage to get two in a day they get a days extra holiday.

It wasn't about kudos, he was doing a job, which by all accounts, he was very good at and due to a tragic combination of circumstances someone died. He never set out that day to kill someone.

He was not doing his job in accordance to the guidelines was he? I notice you still haven't confirmed to us what those guidelines are, you know, the ACPO guidelines on pursuits.

Quote:

Yes and now he is being treated differently to other prisoners. He is being singled out for harsher treatment which regardless of your views on the conviction and sentence is not right.

How is he being treated differently. Please show us where he has been singled out, more than any other prisoner. I wonder if you would feel as much compassion for any other criminal languishing at her Majesty's pleasure.

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

No but I think sometimes the public don't realise the pressures and split second decisions that need to be made on a daily basis and will be endlessly gone over by armchair experts if you get it wrong.
It is a risky job, the same way firemen and ambulance drivers get involved in accidents when people die.

I still think his actions that night were acceptable and don't think anything anyone can say will change that. So do the vast majority of cops I know including a number of very highly trained traffic officers and driving instructors.

I don't like the verdict but I accept it. I don't like the way that the probation service changed their mind due to some bad headlines.

And this is what worries me the most. The fact this conviction will not change anything at all. Even though the guidelines (yes, remember those) define the the terms of engagement when conducting pursuits.

FYI, I can assure you that the support amongst the police officers that I know is not widespread as you would like it to be. I also know a few driving instructors, I doubt they would veer condone such actions.

30-12-2009, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

No but I think sometimes the public don't realise the pressures and split second decisions that need to be made on a daily basis and will be endlessly gone over by armchair experts if you get it wrong.
It is a risky job, the same way firemen and ambulance drivers get involved in accidents when people die.

I still think his actions that night were acceptable and don't think anything anyone can say will change that. So do the vast majority of cops I know including a number of very highly trained traffic officers and driving instructors.

I don't like the verdict but I accept it. I don't like the way that the probation service changed their mind due to some bad headlines.

You choose the job. You are then trained in the job. Then you are responsible for the general public's safety. A member of the GP was killed by this officer who by all accounts did not correctly follow his training. That is hardly being responsible for the public's safety is it? And to top it all off the alleged car thief still escaped

As for the probation service changing their mind I can understand your position but as for the rest of your stance I disagree strongly

Peter_ · 30-12-2009, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

Yeah. Every cop gets a bonus when they get an arrest, if they manage to get two in a day they get a days extra holiday.

It wasn't about kudos, he was doing a job, which by all accounts, he was very good at and due to a tragic combination of circumstances someone died. He never set out that day to kill someone.

Yes and now he is being treated differently to other prisoners. He is being singled out for harsher treatment which regardless of your views on the conviction and sentence is not right.

He tried to lie his way out of it as well is that how you want a fellow officer to behave.

Have you actually read the link or have done an ostrich impression, the only compassion I feel is for Hayley's mother and you can feel the pain in what she says, try reading it and tell me he should be free and not in jail or if not able to visit his family.

All Hayley's mother can do this Christmas is visit a graveside.

Read the article after first removing your blinkers and feel some compassion for the true victims here not the killer.

Click Here.

Flyboy · 30-12-2009, 12:05

Derek S

Any news on confirming the ACPO guidelines for pursuits.

Peter_ · 30-12-2009, 12:18

Here is an extract taken from the Independent Police Complaints Committee Statement dated 8th April 2009.

Northumbria Police officer found guilty of death by dangerous driving

It does kind of say it all.

Quote:

Gary Garland, IPCC Commissioner for the North East, said: “This incident was an absolute tragedy, particularly because it should have been totally avoidable.

“Pc John Dougal is a highly trained police driver, yet he chose to take totally unnecessary and unacceptable risks and travel at high speed on a residential road.

He had no justification whatsoever to drive at such excessive speed.

“Being a highly trained police driver should never be used as licence to take unnecessary risks on public roads.

The actions of Pc Dougal fell well below the standards we should expect of police officers.

His driving was highly dangerous – and had terrible consequences that he must live with for the rest of his life.

Click the link for complete article HERE

Flyboy · 30-12-2009, 12:38

Cue all the apologists saying that the IPCC isn't worth their charter.

Derek · 30-12-2009, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova

He tried to lie his way out of it as well is that how you want a fellow officer to behave.

How did he try to lie his way out of it?

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Any news on confirming the ACPO guidelines for pursuits.

Nope. You want them you find them. It isn't too hard to do.

BTW this wasn't a pursuit (as defined by police) so its pretty pointless but if you want to batter in and do it be my guest.

30-12-2009, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

How did he try to lie his way out of it?

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:47 ----------

Nope. You want them you find them. It isn't too hard to do.

BTW this wasn't a pursuit (as defined by police) so its pretty pointless but if you want to batter in and do it be my guest.

so he wasnt trying to capture the alleged car thief then?

TheDaddy · 30-12-2009, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by zing

so he wasnt trying to capture the alleged car thief then?

perhaps a better way of phrasing would be pursuing an alleged car thief

30-12-2009, 13:12

that would defy the object of my question would it not seeing as Derek had just said it was not a pursuit as defined by the police