Global warming 'past the point of no return'

Originally Posted by chris9991

Here they go again

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8375576.stm

What, you mean the increased likelihood of the UK suffering extreme weather events due to climate change? Yes, indeed, they do 'go' again. They 'went' all over Cockermouth last week. Or hadn't you noticed?

[chris9991]

Sorry - I wasn't meant to come over as being a skeptic. It just seems they keep issuing these warnings and no one seems to actually do anything.

I know that there is Kyoto II to come next month but I can't see that being very productive what with it being politicians and all.

[Pierre]

Another "alarming" story from "experts" that tells you sod all.

They say the 2007 UK floods, 2003 heatwave in Europe and recent droughts were consistent with emerging patterns.

What pattern? tell us what the pattern is then? we had a heatwave 5 years ago and we've had some flooding last year, and this year in fact we've had flooding in different parts of the country virtually every year.

What's next in the pattern? a heat wave next year? I recall the Met Office (one of the "experts" in this report) advising at the start of this year that we'd have heat wave, a "barbecue summer". Well it didn't happen up here, a couple of good weeks a the odd good day nothing out of the ordinary.

What's the pattern?

evidence for "dangerous, long-term and potentially irreversible climate change" was growing.

Climate change is irreversible, who are we to think that we can stop a planets climate, that has been in continual flux for millenia?

Global carbon dioxide levels have continued to rise

but are still lower then when 30% of the earth was covered in ice and snow in the last ice age?

"As the inter-governmental panel on climate change stated very clearly in 2007, without substantial reductions in greenhouse gas emissions we can likely, very likely, expect a world of increasing droughts, floods, species loss, rising seas [and] displaced human populations.

"What this statement says very clearly is that some of those things, whilst we can't directly attribute them at the moment to global warming, are beginning to happen."

I love this quote, there is nothing clear about this quote. I'll try and translate it.

"We have no actual hard evidence that any of the current ecological events are caused by global warming but they are happening"

Yes, and that's from a professor.

Whilst I'm all for cutting pollution, and we should endeavour to reduce emissions whereever possible, we must not put our faith in that cutting emissions will be enough. Unlike our learned friends.

We must start investing in ways to live with climate change, because it is going to change whatever we do.

Originally Posted by chris9991

I know that there is Kyoto II to come next month but I can't see that being very productive what with it being politicians and all.

Its a shame that international agreements like Kyoto etc, end up being a load of horse-trading, smoke and mirrors con jobs, and watered down bullsnot.... The bottom line is that fixing the earth, will, well, cost the earth....

[injuneer]

Originally Posted by chris9991

Sorry - I wasn't meant to come over as being a skeptic. It just seems they keep issuing these warnings and no one seems to actually do anything.

I know that there is Kyoto II to come next month but I can't see that being very productive what with it being politicians and all.

I don't think there is much we can do, once there is some momentum in the weather systems there's not much chance of stopping it even if we all stopped burning fossil fuel completely from tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Pierre

What pattern? tell us what the pattern is then? we had a heatwave 5 years ago and we've had some flooding last year, and this year in fact we've had flooding in different parts of the country virtually every year.

What's next in the pattern? a heat wave next year? I recall the Met Office (one of the "experts" in this report) advising at the start of this year that we'd have heat wave, a "barbecue summer". Well it didn't happen up here, a couple of good weeks a the odd good day nothing out of the ordinary.

Ok you need to stop quoting "experts" in such a fashion. You seem to be saying that they are not experts. The Met Office for example is staffed by some extremely intelligent people, you need to be smart to work there, just like a lot of these people who you, imo, disrespect by denigrating their expertise in such a fashion.

[roadwolf]

Originally Posted by Damien

Ok you need to stop quoting "experts" in such a fashion. You seem to be saying that they are not experts. The Met Office for example is staffed by some extremely intelligent people, you need to be smart to work there, just like a lot of these people who you, imo, disrespect by denigrating their expertise in such a fashion.

Is that why they never get a weather forecast right.

Originally Posted by roadwolf

Is that why they never get a weather forecast right.

Because Weather is unpredictable, they don't pretend to know everything.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Ok you need to stop quoting "experts" in such a fashion. You seem to be saying that they are not experts. The Met Office for example is staffed by some extremely intelligent people, you need to be smart to work there, just like a lot of these people who you, imo, disrespect by denigrating their expertise in such a fashion.

Firstly, I don't need to stop quoting "experts" is such fashion, and you are correct I am implying that they are not experts or certainly not credible.

The met office may be staffed by some intelligent people, doesn't make a blind bit of difference. They are the ones going on record as predicting calamity abound for years to come if we don't act on "climate change" when they they can't forecast several months in advance let alone years

Because Weather is unpredictable, they don't pretend to know everything.

Well if they don't pretend to know everything, and if weather is so unpredictable, then why are they contributing to this statement??????

Whenever I see, or hear, a story that starts with the sentence "experts say" or "scientists say" I treat it with the contempt it deserves. The quote from that professor confirms my reservations

Originally Posted by Pierre

Firstly, I don't need to stop quoting "experts" is such fashion, and you are correct I am implying that they are not experts or certainly not credible.

Whenever I see, or hear, a story that starts with the sentence "experts say" or "scientists say" I treat it with the contempt it deserves. The quote from that professor confirms my reservations

It depends who the experts are. Scientists at the Met Office are credible sources of information, some guy who calls himself an expert without the evidence to back it up is not credible.

The Met Office has many different areas of staff but they are generally well educated in their fields. We're talking PhD and Masters level, often in subjects much as physics and maths. Then to top that off there are many years of experience. So if they say something than maybe your first reaction should not be to "treat it with the contempt it deserves". I am trying to think of a major scientific institution which rejects the science behind global warming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienti...climate_change

The met office may be staffed by some intelligent people, doesn't make a blind bit of difference. They are the ones going on record as predicting calamity abound for years to come if we don't act on "climate change" when they they can't forecast several months in advance let alone years

Well if they don't pretend to know everything, and if weather is so unpredictable, then why are they contributing to this statement??????

Your the one making the mistake in thinking predicting short term weather patterns, like will it rain next week, is the same science as forecasting weather trends and examining those in the past. They know which conditions cause certain events (hurricanes, floods, droughts) and they can estimate the likelihood of those occurring again.

[Pierre]

Your the one making the mistake in thinking predicting short term weather patterns, like will it rain next week, is the same science as forecasting weather trends and examining those in the past. They know which conditions cause certain events (hurricanes, floods, droughts) and they can estimate the likelihood of those occurring again.

No I'm not, the Met office predicted that this summer would be very hot, they went on record at the begining of the year, and they were wrong. I'm not talking about next here but months in advance.

Obviously using all of their historical data they predicted a blazing UK summer, and were wrong.

Predicting Hurricanes is easy, I predict that there will be several hurricanes and/or tropical storms in the South Atlantic and Carribean between August and October.

The truth of the matter is that "scientists" and "experts" don't know what effect the changing climate will have on the planet.

Originally Posted by Pierre

No I'm not, the Met office predicted that this summer would be very hot, they went on record at the begining of the year, and they were wrong. I'm not talking about next here but months in advance.

Obviously using all of their historical data they predicted a blazing UK summer, and were wrong.

Predicting Hurricanes is easy, I predict that there will be several hurricanes and/or tropical storms in the South Atlantic and Carribean between August and October.

The truth of the matter is that "scientists" and "experts" don't know what effect the changing climate will have on the planet.

Ok. They are scientists and experts. They can be wrong but that doesn't diminish their expertise in their areas. If they are to be treated with such disrespect and contempt then who should we listen too? The only way to disprove their claims is with science, practised by scientists, who need to be experts in their field.

Looking at long term effects on climate is different to predicting the weather. They know for example about freak weather patterns can occur and not if they will occur. We seem to be having freak floods more often than usual for example. While we did not get a heatwave in summer but we do seem to have a warmer November. Neither of which matters because it's how all the data trends over long periods that prove anything.

So they look at this, and the scientific community has pretty much formed a consense that Global Warming is real and the rate is being increased faster by human factors which are producing additional amounts of Carbon Dioxide, among other things.

[Pierre]

the scientific community has pretty much formed a consense that Global Warming is real and the rate is being increased faster by human factors which are producing additional amounts of Carbon Dioxide, among other things.

Not all scientists subscribe to the mainstream global warming argument

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...global_warming

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not all scientists subscribe to the mainstream global warming argument

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...global_warming

I didn't say all. Most do. There are scientists who promote Intelligent Design and the Young-Earth stuff as well.

[nomadking]

IIRC the heatwave of a few years back was because of existing hot air coming up from the Sahara. So overall the amount of 'heat' was the same, it's just that some of it escaped northwards.