We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.

Originally Posted by rogermevans

they email us ours

Not everyone has internet access.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

lol Though i quite like wearing my ties ( last count there were over a hundred up stairs lol ) i quite agree with you

as to the school changing things in their last year seems daft to me too new intake fair enough

taking her out of school also seems daft to me but were the school going to send her home anyway if she didn't wear it ?

as to them requiring clip on ties i would also refuse to wear one i wear a proper one with a double Windsor or nothing

The reason why the school changed the ties was because they were fed up with telling the students to do them up properly. There is nothing more slovenly looking, than a child who wears their tie half way down their stomachs, with a huge knot and a short blade. Apparently, she was one of those who continued to ignore the instructions to wear the uniform correctly.

the bit about full consultation made me laugh that means they consulted the few parents who turn up for PTA meetings if they had taken a vote then i would see it differently

PTAs have nothing whatsoever to do with school uniforms. These are subjects and issues covered by the schools' governing bodies. It's a struggle to get anyone to turn up for PTA meetings and commit themselves to help out at the Christmas Fair, let alone make decisions such as this. Parental consultations can take many different forms, such as letters and e-mails, but the school cannot be held responsible, if parents are too lazy to respond.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Not everyone has internet access.

they can txt us too lol bet they had phones



but seriously they do tend to only consult those who will agree with them most of the time

in this case it just seems a silly way to bring it in much easier just to bring it in by just moving it up from 1st year and leaving those already there as they are

think i might start a "Campaign For Real Neckties" lol

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

To be fair I bet the little minx wouldn't have taken any newsletter about it home either...You should see the contemptuous way the students treat any newsletters home in ANY of the schools I teach in..

little minx

now i understand, its bash st school

[Callumpy]

Hahaha, took her out of school. I just let the school moan about my sakte shoes and jeans.

Originally Posted by Callumpy

Hahaha, took her out of school. I just let the school moan about my sakte shoes and jeans.

Your parents must be so proud......

So let them take her out let her fail her exams and suffer the consequences of it and so what if she learnns from this she can get her own way the real world will put that straight soon enough.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

The reason why the school changed the ties was because they were fed up with telling the students to do them up properly. There is nothing more slovenly looking, than a child who wears their tie half way down their stomachs, with a huge knot and a short blade. Apparently, she was one of those who continued to ignore the instructions to wear the uniform correctly.




PTAs have nothing whatsoever to do with school uniforms. These are subjects and issues covered by the schools' governing bodies. It's a struggle to get anyone to turn up for PTA meetings and commit themselves to help out at the Christmas Fair, let alone make decisions such as this. Parental consultations can take many different forms, such as letters and e-mails, but the school cannot be held responsible, if parents are too lazy to respond.

first one i have yet to see a school where the kids wear their ties in a uniform way

as to the second point PTA may not be supposed to be deciding things but they are the ones they mean they consulted with !

as to them not bothering to take part yes it likely these may not have chosen to take part but it as likely that those making this decision chose not to consult with those that dont agree with them in any meaningful way too

been there done it had it done to me

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

they can txt us too lol bet they had phones



but seriously they do tend to only consult those who will agree with them most of the time

in this case it just seems a silly way to bring it in much easier just to bring it in by just moving it up from 1st year and leaving those already there as they are

think i might start a "Campaign For Real Neckties" lol

That could take up to seven years to implement. Meanwhile, there would be a disparity in the way the children complied with the rules. That would not make it fair for those who had to follow the rules, from year seven. But, from what I believe, they had implemented a phasing in of the ties. I don't see what the problem is, it's not as if the ties cost a fortune, is it? Three or four pounds, I would have thought. If a parent has difficulty in affording any part of the school uniform, there is assistance for such things.

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------

Originally Posted by rogermevans

first one i have yet to see a school where the kids wear their ties in a uniform way

But that is no excuse for it to happen and this school is doing their best to stop it. What is wrong with that?

as to the second point PTA may not be supposed to be deciding things but they are the ones they mean they consulted with !

as to them not bothering to take part yes it likely these may not have chosen to take part but it as likely that those making this decision chose not to consult with those that dont agree with them in any meaningful way too

been there done it had it done to me

This is not the function of a PTA. They are there to provide additional and supplementary funding to the school budget. They are not their to be representative of the parents, in any decisions the school makes, that is what the board of governors are there for. The board of governors then contact ALL parents to consult them. If your school are using the PTA this way, they are not acting in a way which the local education authority/children's services would sanction. Neither would the NCPTA (National Confederation of Parent Teachers Associations). If you feel that the school is not providing adequate consultation and you are not getting a satisfactory answer from the headteacher, then talk to governors, that is what they are there for.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

That could take up to seven years to implement. Meanwhile, there would be a disparity in the way the children complied with the rules. That would not make it fair for those who had to follow the rules, from year seven. But, from what I believe, they had implemented a phasing in of the ties. I don't see what the problem is, it's not as if the ties cost a fortune, is it? Three or four pounds, I would have thought. If a parent has difficulty in affording any part of the school uniform, there is assistance for such things.

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------



But that is no excuse for it to happen and this school is doing their best to stop it. What is wrong with that?



This is not the function of a PTA. They are there to provide additional and supplementary funding to the school budget. They are not their to be representative of the parents, in any decisions the school makes, that is what the board of governors are there for. The board of governors then contact ALL parents to consult them. If your school are using the PTA this way, they are not acting in a way which the local education authority/children's services would sanction. Neither would the NCPTA (National Confederation of Parent Teachers Associations). If you feel that the school is not providing adequate consultation and you are not getting a satisfactory answer from the headteacher, then talk to governors, that is what they are there for.

1 it could take that long but likely would only take 5 as most schools have different ties for 6 and upper 6th and in any case they were taking 3 years to phase this in any way so it would only have been an extra 2 years

2 i can think of better things to worry about in behavior than ties

3 yes i know its not their job BUT that is who they mean when most school say they have consulted there was no vote taken parents were invited to a parents forum at which i expect many other topics were up for discussion as long as you agreed lol

a load of us did turn up for one of these meetings at our school on parking they had a room for 30 ! not the 200 that turned up most of us against the idea but strangely in the annual report they seemed to think their wide ranging consultation had agreed with them so i wouldn't read to much into any claims by the school on parental suport

so we are left with a school refusing to teach a child in its last year because of a tie which will likely end up costing the local authority a fortune as they will have to provide education for the child while the dispute goes through various channels most likely with home tutors all for the sake of which type of tie they wear

i am not against uniform rules but they shouldn't be changed for those already there imho you pick you rules let the new intake decide if they wish to come and obey or go else where thats ok but changing a rule and one where it seems they were following even if not all the same way to be daft

if i was the local authority ( as well as trying to get a compromise of the parents ) i would make the governors pay for the extra costs in educating a child they have already had the money to educate off the government

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

1 it could take that long but likely would only take 5 as most schools have different ties for 6 and upper 6th and in any case they were taking 3 years to phase this in any way so it would only have been an extra 2 years

So...I don't see your problem, they have implemented a phasing in of the change, which is what you were asking for. Three years is plenty of time to phase in a change of uniform. But we are talking about a tie, not a whole uniform.

2 i can think of better things to worry about in behavior than ties

But standards are standards and the school has made the decision on uniforms and the children have to abide by them, because they are the rules. What next? Don't do the homework, because that changed? Or, because the school has decided that they will come down harder on bullies, the children don't have to abide by those rules, because they weren't the rules when they joined the school?

3 yes i know its not their job BUT that is who they mean when most school say they have consulted there was no vote taken parents were invited to a parents forum at which i expect many other topics were up for discussion as long as you agreed lol

PTAs are not consulted about changes in uniforms.

That is not the function of a PTA.

a load of us did turn up for one of these meetings at our school on parking they had a room for 30 ! not the 200 that turned up most of us against the idea but strangely in the annual report they seemed to think their wide ranging consultation had agreed with them so i wouldn't read to much into any claims by the school on parental suport

Why didn't you find somewhere else to park, get the bus, or walk? If you had a problem with their method of consultation, why didn't you challenge them about it?

so we are left with a school refusing to teach a child in its last year because of a tie which will likely end up costing the local authority a fortune as they will have to provide education for the child while the dispute goes through various channels most likely with home tutors all for the sake of which type of tie they wear

The parents have withdrawn their child, not the school, it won't cost the LEA a penny.

i am not against uniform rules but they shouldn't be changed for those already there imho you pick you rules let the new intake decide if they wish to come and obey or go else where thats ok but changing a rule and one where it seems they were following even if not all the same way to be daft

So...if the children refuse to wear the existing uniform correctly and break the rules, why should the school stand for it? The school decided that they should wear a tie, which they can't abuse, but this child still didn't want to follow the rules. So she was sanctioned because of it; as is the prerogative of the school. Should the school not do this to children who break the rules?

if i was the local authority ( as well as trying to get a compromise of the parents ) i would make the governors pay for the extra costs in educating a child they have already had the money to educate off the government

As I said, the parents decided to withdraw the child, it won't cost them anything.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

So...I don't see your problem, they have implemented a phasing in of the change, which is what you were asking for. Three years is plenty of time to phase in a change of uniform. But we are talking about a tie, not a whole uniform.



But standards are standards and the school has made the decision on uniforms and the children have to abide by them, because they are the rules. What next? Don't do the homework, because that changed? Or, because the school has decided that they will come down harder on bullies, the children don't have to abide by those rules, because they weren't the rules when they joined the school?



PTAs are not consulted about changes in uniforms.

That is not the function of a PTA.




Why didn't you find somewhere else to park, get the bus, or walk? If you had a problem with their method of consultation, why didn't you challenge them about it?



The parents have withdrawn their child, not the school, it won't cost the LEA a penny.



So...if the children refuse to wear the existing uniform correctly and break the rules, why should the school stand for it? The school decided that they should wear a tie, which they can't abuse, but this child still didn't want to follow the rules. So she was sanctioned because of it; as is the prerogative of the school. Should the school not do this to children who break the rules?



As I said, the parents decided to withdraw the child, it won't cost them anything.

Flyboy, what price do you put on a child's education?
It may not cost the LEA, As you have stated, by the way, I do not know for certain if the parents can claim for educating their child at home, they may be able to.
For example, if one of the parents had to give up work so they are at home with the child, they could probably claim benefits of some type, so this whole thing may not be as " costless " as you think.
The tie should be an optional part of the uniform, and certainly not used as an excuse to deny a child an education.

At my son's school, the tie is not an optional part of the uniform (or at any of the local schools), unless
a) you are in sixth form
b) it is "summer uniform", when polo shirts can be worn

And he and his friends were always being told to do up their ties (and tuck their shirts in).

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

At my son's school, the tie is not an optional part of the uniform (or at any of the local schools), unless
a) you are in sixth form
b) it is "summer uniform", when polo shirts can be worn

And he and his friends were always being told to do up their ties (and tuck their shirts in).

Quick, quick take them out ... their human rights are obviously being compromised.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Flyboy, what price do you put on a child's education?
It may not cost the LEA, As you have stated, by the way, I do not know for certain if the parents can claim for educating their child at home, they may be able to.
For example, if one of the parents had to give up work so they are at home with the child, they could probably claim benefits of some type, so this whole thing may not be as " costless " as you think.
The tie should be an optional part of the uniform, and certainly not used as an excuse to deny a child an education.

But in this case it's not. So if you send your kids to an establishemnt where there are rules to follow, shouldn't they be made to follow them. I hated wearing a tie in school, and shorts in the summer. But I, nor my parents, were going to let me miss out on my education simply because of the tie.

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Quick, quick take them out ... their human rights are obviously being compromised.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------



But in this case it's not. So if you send your kids to an establishemnt where there are rules to follow, shouldn't they be made to follow them. I hated wearing a tie in school, and shorts in the summer. But I, nor my parents, were going to let me miss out on my education simply because of the tie.

Saaf, whatever the rules the school have are, in my opinion, it is idiotic to not have the tie as an option.
You like others have a different take on the matter, that is fine.
The way our country is at the moment, around here at least, 200 people chasing one job, would the fact that a prospective employee wears a tie really sway an employer when they have no jobs?
The wearing of a tie should not be used to gauge a person.
There are more things that are important in the upbringing of kids than throwing a tie around their neck.
Sadly now missing it seems, basic good manners like holding the door open for someone, helping the old lady from the bus with her shopping trolley, basic simple things that can make our kids better people, hopefully.
So IMO the tie should be optional, that is my opinion, does not mean it has to be a shared one.
But as I have said before, although it may not cost the LEA directly in terms of paying for books etc for the child to be educated at home, what is the true cost, in terms of a child who has not had the usual mainstream educating?
Probably someone unable to mix with people, because they have been taught in a confined area.