[Update] BNP on Question Time this week

Originally Posted by Flyboy

They have a legitimate and valid reason to uninvite them.

Who says the BBC wants to uninvite them? Hain certainly doesn't seem to think the BBC is looking for a way out; the content and tone of his letter suggests he thinks the BBC needs to be bullied into uninviting the BNP.

But Fuhrer Griffin does not use reason and fact. He uses confusion, conjecture and lies.

It doesn't matter what Dimbleby will say, Griffin will continue to spout his lies and the racist ignorants will lap it up.

Not so different to many other politicians then. As others have already said, Dimbleby is there to ensure the questions are answered, or at least to draw attention to the fact that they have not been answered.

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

While I don't mind/care the BNP being allowed onto Question Time, I don't see the problem in denying a platform to fascists? This is not a violation of free speech, it's about not giving them a megaphone from which to promote their agenda.

The BBC does not have the luxury of deciding who to hand the megaphone to. It has to show political impartiality. The BNP is a political party, with significant popular support. All this argument over the legality of its constitution is a diversion by those who still don't grasp the substantive issue: the people who voted, and will continue to vote, for the BNP, are not interested in legal technicalities, they are interested in someone who says the things they want to hear. That's what Griffin does, and that's why he now has a seat as an MEP.

Hain's legalistic grandstanding is simply another attempt to convince everyone to ignore the BNP, because if we do they'll go away. Well the mainstream parties have tried that, and guess what? It didn't work. It's time to get the spotlight on them.

I also think the people who subscribe to these views do so due to anger, ignorance, racism or a combination of the three. I don't think they can be reasoned with or the ideology defeated with debate and fact.

These are mere assertions Damien, and very shaky ones at that. On what basis do you make BNP voters into an entire class of person who can't be reasoned with, even if it was anger or frustration that caused them to vote that way in the first place?

He won't though. He's too smart. He will ensure he comes across well and will spout populist nonsense.

More importantly he will frame the context of the debate before he answers any question. He won't answer "Are mixed marriages a good/bad/indifferent thing?" he will pretend the question is "Should we preserve British culture?". He won't answer "Did the Black British Solider injured in Iraq deserve the Victoria Cross?" he will pretend the question is "Should Black Solders be given the VC because they are black?". He frames the question so that he gives a responsible, non-racist, answer and pretends that the answers to those questions are what have caused the BNP to be called Racist. Strawmen ahoy.

I'm familiar with the way politicians steer debates and tough questions onto ground they are happier to defend. So is Dimbleby. So are all the other panellists. So are many of the people who seek to get into the audience for programmes like this.

This is not a five-minute interview on Today or Newsnight where a tough and canny subject can survive being repeatedly asked the same question if they're stubborn or brass-necked enough. This is an hour-long programme, broadcast virtually as-live. Nobody is going to let him get away with anything.

[QUOTE=Flyboy;34893534]No they are not, that has already been determined.


when did the BNP get declared an illegal party ?

[Flyboy]

Where have you been living for the past week?

Their constituion was declared to be illegal and such as they they don't have a legal constitution they cannot be considered to be a legal political party.

And the relevance of this is ... ?

[Flyboy]

Have you not read the thread?

Yep.

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:46 ----------

Have you?

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Where have you been living for the past week?

Their constituion was declared to be illegal and such as they they don't have a legal constitution they cannot be considered to be a legal political party.

You appear to be putting an interpretation on the decision that not even the Court or the QC for the Equalities Commission have.

The court heard Mr Griffin would be given 10 days to submit a signed undertaking confirming the proposed changes. The case was adjourned until 28 January.

Link

Nothing (as far as I can see) states that the BNP are now an illegal party - any evidence to the contrary would be gratefully received.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Where have you been living for the past week?

Their constituion was declared to be illegal and such as they they don't have a legal constitution they cannot be considered to be a legal political party.

NO it hasn't been declared illegal ..yet ,legal proceedings have been suspended untill after 14-15 nov when the matter is to be discussed

The whole issue is moot anyway as the upcoming equality bill will make their constitution illegal anyway and the BNP accept this

[Flyboy]

But he doesn't appear to have signed such an undertaking yet.

Post #98

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But he doesn't appear to have signed such an undertaking yet.

no he hasn't and as i stated the earliest is going to be 14-15 nov

All this debate does tend to raise one question though .If the BNP is forced to allow non indigenous races then what is the point of the party?

Originally Posted by martyh

All this debate does tend to raise one question though .If the BNP is forced to allow non indigenous races then what is the point of the party?

Circular reasoning FTL !

As was stated earlier.... The fascist Richard Heads for the BNP may be willing to change their rules, but who from a minority group would want tp join.... Even if they did, they just rejest the application on some spurious ground....

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But he doesn't appear to have signed such an undertaking yet.

So. Flaming. What?!

[Jimmy-J]

Update:

In a letter to Mr Hain today, Mr Thompson responded: "According to the advice we have received, the British National Party is not prevented from continuing to operate on a day-to-day basis and its elected representatives continue to sit on councils and in the European Parliament.

"It remains the BBC's obligation to scrutinise and hold to account all elected representatives and to do so with due impartiality.

"We are also advised that if there were to be any election - local or national - tomorrow, the BNP would still be able to field candidates.

"We therefore do not agree that the developments in the Central London County Court proceedings legally inhibit the BBC from allowing Nick Griffin to participate on the Question Time programme and our position remains as set out."


Mr Griffin is due to appear on Thursday's edition of Question Time alongside Justice Secretary Jack Straw, representatives of the other main parties and black writer Bonnie Greer.

Link

Good for him.

I wonder if Hain realises that all he's achieved here is to ensure a bigger TV audience for someone he would prefer to have no audience at all.