[Update] The Royal Mail strike thread

Originally Posted by ZrByte

And you do realise after the modernisation RM are going to try again on the privatisation of the mail system. When that happens domestic deliveries become optional. With RM being the only company really interested in doing it anywhere but big cities you may find you wont have a delivery any more (at least not daily).

This is typical union scaremongering and you shouldn't be taken in by it. Similar was said prior to the privatisation of BT more than 20 years ago, yet thanks to the universal service obligation they are still compelled to run lines to remote farms and crofts and to operate phone boxes in 'socially necessary' locations where they may not be profitable. The universal service is as healthy as it has ever been, with the outcome of the Digital Britain report now being that the universal service obligation for data services carried over the phone line being enhanced from the miserly few kilobits as it currently stands, up to at least 2 meg and perhaps more.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by ZrByte

And how does ranting on a forum or screaming at the postman in the street any more effective?

We need to spread the word about how unpopular this strike action is. We need to let the RM know that as many people as possible do not support them.

As for 'screaming at the postman', that's something I totally disagree with. Maybe he's against the action, maybe he'll cross the picket line. Whatever his view, it's not his fault and he won't be able to do anything to change the situation.

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

If Royal Mail is loosing money then they need to be brought into the 21st century.

This includes modern equipment and working practices until the company is profitable. This is no different than any other company why should Royal Mail be treated any different.

JJ

Mainly because RM Aren't losing money. Their profits are lower then they would like because of the massive pension deficit when they took a holiday from paying into it (For 17 years if I heard correctly). However I don't see why the work force should suffer for that one, they made the debt, they should pay it back.

And I know this isn't a reply to you but someone earlier mentioned a nice juicy payment to anybody taking voluntary redundancy because we are government owned. That couldn't be more wrong, The highest offer we have had so far was £5,000. That was for a postie of 25 years experience, Thats not even 1/3 his yearly wage. Now while I suppose this is better than nothing its still not as though we have the easy out like some people think.

---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ B

Nobody is saying the workers don't have a legitimate reason to be unhappy. What we object to is having our lives and services disrupted when the argument isn't even ours. I can't stand it when some union decides the only way to get what they want is to take it out on silly old Joe Public. I also hate it when the wheel out the "this is a last resort" and "we never wanted to strike" lines. Well boo-hoo boys, no-one's buying it.

Even worse is when they expect support from the very people who are crying out for employment.

Suggest a way around it then.

Originally Posted by ZrByte

Suggest a way around it then.

How about this:

1. Don't go on strike.
2. Let the managers do what they are paid to do, namely take management decisions.
3. Do the job you're paid to do.
4. If you don't like it, (a) be thankful you have a job, millions currently don't; or (b) do what a great many other people do, and start applying for other jobs.

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

Which part of these modernisation efforts are they striking about?

From the Royal Mail website

• Not working all the hours for which people are paid. A significant number of delivery postmen in some units in London complete their walks up to two hours before their scheduled duty finish each day yet are unwilling to help out with other tasks for the remainder of the working day. The 2007 agreement set out that people should work the hours for which they are paid.

We do that allready

• During the summer when mail volumes are low there is less work to do. By asking each delivery postman simply to deliver to one or two extra streets, some of their colleagues’ summer holidays can be covered without overtime. Many London delivery units refuse to cover additional streets.

That is a blatant lie that RM have used several times in the past to make us look lazy. Domestic mail volumes drop but mail weights and packet deliveries actually increase by about a third so the deliveries take about as long.

• Refusal to work to revised delivery routes generated by computer aided planning, which is used in postal organisations around the world and is aimed at making us more efficient.

Again, We are already doing this in my office. It took nearly a year to implement in my office because RM bought the software from an American company so delivery points are estimated to be on the edge of the pavement for houses and just inside the foyer in flats, which is rarely the case.

• A refusal to accept the use of more part time workers in delivery to enable us to be more flexible and match the workload, even though we have guaranteed that no-one who works full-time will be forced to go part-time.

I'm part time and so is another 1/5 of my office. And the managers have already bullied 2 people into quitting because they wouldn't take part time hours, and another 1 to take a part time contract and supplement his wage with another job because he couldn't afford to do it.

• In Mail Centres, there are demarcation lines which date back decades - so, for example, Distribution drivers refuse to work in the mail centre even when they have no driving to do but there is work in the mail centre which needs attention

Not entirely sure about this one because we are not a mail-centre but from what I have heard today in work when I asked is that this applies to overtime only and its not representative of a normal working shift (At least in our area). Royal mail have a nasty habit of bringing people in on overtime with the promise of one type of work and then shafting people with the other jobs that they haven't agreed to do and often don't know how to do.

---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 ----------

Originally Posted by punky

Why don't the strikers use work-to-rule?

Probably because the action doesn't **** off the populus enough. Let's face it, even industrial action in the private sector involves screwing the public one way or other by blockading fuel depots or rolling roadblocks.

We will always be inconvenienced because that's the most criticial bit of industrial action

Tried it, doesn't work.

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

This is typical union scaremongering and you shouldn't be taken in by it. Similar was said prior to the privatisation of BT more than 20 years ago, yet thanks to the universal service obligation they are still compelled to run lines to remote farms and crofts and to operate phone boxes in 'socially necessary' locations where they may not be profitable. The universal service is as healthy as it has ever been, with the outcome of the Digital Britain report now being that the universal service obligation for data services carried over the phone line being enhanced from the miserly few kilobits as it currently stands, up to at least 2 meg and perhaps more.

I hope your right because I'm a customer too you know.

[punky]

Originally Posted by ZrByte

Tried it, doesn't work.

That would be because management aren't as inept nor abusing their authority as you would like to have people believe then.

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Russ B

We need to spread the word about how unpopular this strike action is. We need to let the RM know that as many people as possible do not support them.

As for 'screaming at the postman', that's something I totally disagree with. Maybe he's against the action, maybe he'll cross the picket line. Whatever his view, it's not his fault and he won't be able to do anything to change the situation.

Wish more people felt the same as you about that. I actually voted against the strike in my office, though I wont be crossing any picket lines I didn't actually want it to come to this and I'm sick of customer abuse about it (Especially in the last month or so).

Originally Posted by ZrByte

I hope your right because I'm a customer too you know.

Of course I'm right. And I say that as a resident of one of the very far-flung communities that RM might be expected to drop like a hot potato, were the universal service not to remain as an obligation post any privatisation.

All the once state-run utilities are subject to regulation on some level or other. It prevents them cherry-picking only the most profitable parts of the business and forces them to shoulder responsibilities in proportion to the commercial advantage they hold as a long-term incumbent supplier.

To suggest that a privatised Royal Mail would be allowed to abandon universal service is utterly without foundation.

[punky]

Originally Posted by ZrByte

though I wont be crossing any picket lines I didn't actually want it to come to this and I'm sick of customer abuse about it (Especially in the last month or so).

Do the union reps still visit the homes of scabs (lovely term, that) and try and convince the families to dissuade the works from crossing picket lines then?

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Chris

How about this:

1. Don't go on strike.
2. Let the managers do what they are paid to do, namely take management decisions.
3. Do the job you're paid to do.
4. If you don't like it, (a) be thankful you have a job, millions currently don't; or (b) do what a great many other people do, and start applying for other jobs.

1. I said a way around it, not to ignore it.
2. Go into your nearest delivery office and ask to speak to a manager, You'll probably find after a moment or two talking to them why that wouldn't work.
3. Trying to, but RM want me to do the job another man is paid to do aswel for less pay (not even the same pay).
4. (a) Most of those millions may possibly have still had a job of they had a union (b) Already on it. Like many have already covered on this thread it's not that easy.

---------- Post added at 12:30 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

Originally Posted by punky

That would be because management aren't as inept nor abusing their authority as you would like to have people believe then.

Actually it's the opposite, they are so good at bullying staff en-mass that working to rule is unenforceable because a lot of us end up working for free at the end of our shifts under threat of disciplinary or sacking.

---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 ----------

Originally Posted by punky

Do the union reps still visit the homes of scabs (lovely term, that) and try and convince the families to dissuade the works from crossing picket lines then?

lol, not that I've ever heard of.

[punky]

Originally Posted by ZrByte

Actually it's the opposite, they are so good at bullying staff en-mass that working to rule is unenforceable because a lot of us end up working for free at the end of our shifts under threat of disciplinary or sacking.

That makes no sense.

Besides if you have to work for free and its not against any rule then surely that's an issue with your union who negotiated the last deal?

[jamiefrost]

Can't realy see what the strike is about then if all of the items on Royal Mail's website are untrue.

All I can seeem to find is that the Management are trying to run the business into the ground.

This doesn't make sense, at the end of the day the work force will still be needed. If Royal Mail is sold off the first to go will be a lot of the managers.

Parcel sortation is possibly another area as there is a lot of spare capacity in the 'system' at the moment.

But only Royal Mail have the infrastructure to hit every house every day.

The use of anualised hours is a common occurance in buisnesses with seasonal peaks. It's pretty much required to help a buisness be profitable.

JJ

Originally Posted by ZrByte

1. I said a way around it, not to ignore it.
2. Go into your nearest delivery office and ask to speak to a manager, You'll probably find after a moment or two talking to them why that wouldn't work.
3. Trying to, but RM want me to do the job another man is paid to do aswel for less pay (not even the same pay).
4. (a) Most of those millions may possibly have still had a job of they had a union (b) Already on it. Like many have already covered on this thread it's not that easy.

I know 4(b) isn't easy, I've been in that position nearly 4 months now, and without 4(a) to rely on in the meantime. However, in reply to 3., I don't see why Royal Mail staff should be exempt from working the full shift they are being paid for.

I have found, in the long term, that your employment prospects - both in finding, and excelling at a job - are a lot better if you see the ability to generate and manage your workload as a positive attribute, rather than some unpardonable transgression of someone's demarcation line.

You know, I'm reminded of one of my dad's favourite stories of his days at sea as a marine engineer. He used to hate coming into port at Liverpool because certain mundane tasks, such as lifting deck plates to do maintenance, became the dockside boiler maker's job as soon as the vessel was moored up.

At sea, he could lift the plates, perform maintenance and replace them in minutes. In port, he had to wait (sometimes for hours) for some belligerent docker to come and do it for him. He couldn't do it himself, because it wasn't worth the risk of provoking a wildcat strike resulting in the dockers refusing to deal with the ship at all.

Thankfully those days are, for the most part, now little more than a shameful episode of our industrial history. Except in Royal Mail offices, it seems.

In good times maybe you might have had some public support but come on do you really expect to get it when so many are losing their jobs and countless others are having to work reduced hours and take pay cuts. Why is it postal workers seem to think different rules should apply to them then apply to the rest of the working population. Many work longer hours for less pay in worse conditions and even if they had a union wouldn't strike because right now they know people without jobs and appreciate their own no matter how crappy it is.

Another reason why public support is not as forthcoming as it once was is because as i mentioned earlier you can sit down on january 1st and take a good guess when you will hear about strikes because it is the same damn time every year. That time is of course when you will royally screw the majority of the general public and cause them maximum disruption and inconvinience. Right now instead of trying to get everything you want how about just shutting up and getting on with it realising that times are bad for everyone and no one has the perfect job.

If you can't and things are so bad for you then take voluntary redundancy and come join all of us on benefit who supposedly are living life to the max taking the mick out of the state. Sorry i have no sympathy right now with postal workers because all my sympathy is going to the many people i know who despite being as flexible as they could possibly be some of them having worked more then a couple of months for no money trying to keep their firms going have NO JOB.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by ZrByte

And how does ranting on a forum or screaming at the postman in the street any more effective?

I note your sincere concern for customers with problems like mine...

Moaning may not be more effective but, given that the other options of complaining officially (which you recommended) don't work, what else do you suggest long suffering customers do? Although I've never done it, I imagine ranting at postmen is what some people are reduced to because they're fed up with such shoddy service and nothing being done about it...

Please tell me just what is the union's current official excuse for delivery staff regularly putting letters addressed to another house in another street through my clearly numbered front door and failing to obtain a signature for RD mail ?...