Tory plan to cut disability red tape

[frogstamper]

Looking at this from a politically neutral view, I don't think any politician of either party would want to intentionally make it difficult for genuinely disabled claimants or family members to access.
Personally I'm of the opinion that when in government a great deal of these good ideas and intentions just get swallowed up by the minutia and bureaucracy of government, I'm sure if Cameron gets to be PM there will be an army of civil servants telling him all the pitfalls of making claiming easier, along with warnings of headlines in the Daily Hate and Sun saying, "wet Tory goes soft on benefits".
After thirteen years in power Labour are jaded by the political process and cynical to its workings, maybe the civil service should be top of the list for reform for whoever wins next.

[rogerdraig]

yep let us make the forms they have to fill out to keep their jobs

not that i would be vindictive

me

Originally Posted by Osem

Speaking as the parent of a severely disabled child I can honestly say that if they do it it'll be very welcome and it's long overdue:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8153116.stm

Parents with disabled kids who are struggling to survive really do have enough to put up with without the state adding so much to the burden!

There should be no red tape to go through, if the child has got a disability that's it no questions, no visits by crack teams by people who've got no idea of the child's disability just give them what they are entitled to.

They don't make it harder for the dole scroungers to get their beer money each week do they??

[Angua]

I don't think there is any question regarding the need to simplify thing especially for disabled children. Where successive governments seem to have a problem is in separating these from the non obviously disabled adults.

One size does not fit all, and bureaucrats love their one form for all system.

[Peter_]

With regards to removing red tape and making it easier for people with genuine disabilities to claim what they need.
I for one would not trust any party to follow this through when in power, because it will cost them to much and it is much easier to disallow genuine claimants than it is to pay them.

The conservatives maybe voicing this because David Cameron had a disabled child and are looking for the sympathy vote but equally Gordon Brown could do the same by using his families health issues.

Lets all wait and see after the next election when we have a new government if we actually see a reversal in policy and people with genuine disabilities get the help they truly deserve.

[Osem]

The trouble with determining disability is that not all forms of disability are physical and/or obvious so there has to be some level of expert involvement in the qualification process and that means assessments, forms etc. etc. The extent to which anyone can reduce this red tape is going to be limited but doing away with all the time consuming duplication involved in filling out the various lengthy forms for separate benefits/concessions would be a good start.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Osem

The trouble with determining disability is that not all forms of disability are physical and/or obvious so there has to be some level of expert involvement in the qualification process and that means assessments, forms etc. etc. The extent to which anyone can reduce this red tape is going to be limited but doing away with all the time consuming duplication involved in filling out the various lengthy forms for separate benefits/concessions would be a good start.

The problem is that it is to long winded a process for even obviously disabled people and even causes long waits just to get a disability parking permit.

My brother is a year younger than me and and has cerebral palsy from birth a mental age of 3/4 and never been able to walk, he has been in local authority care for many years but even his carers have to go through a long winded process to get his allowances.

What really annoys me are the *******s who go cradle to the grave on benefit and have all these specially setup local centres to help them word their claims that are just there to help them milk the system without ever having to work.

I work for my money but I do have a worn hip which I could possibly use to stop working and have one of these places help me milk the system, but I have to much pride in myself and want to work and feel the need to work otherwise I would be bored.

[joglynne]

Mol I think you are being very unfair if you are saying that organizations such as DialUK are there to help people milk the system and also, by making out that they are there to help scroungers, you risk putting off people who are genuinely in need of help from using their services.

The two relatives they came out to help for me had both had benefits refused mainly because my relatives, like a lot of people, had been to proud to put down in black and white, for all to see, just how much their disabilities effected their lives and it needs people such as the volunteers at DialUK to negotiate the mine field that the current claim forms produce.

The procedures for claiming disability benefits are atrocious. Succeeding Governments have added layer upon layer of red tape in an attempt to avoid just starting again from scratch and developing a system that could be used on a multi-agency platform.

No one enjoys hearing reports of people who have been getting any form of benefit that they are not entitled to but trying to stop that happening has, to some degree, also been the cause of a lot of the red tape that claimants have to get through to-day.

Having worked with staff trying to deal with disability claims I can tell you that they were not happy about some of the decisions they had to make and would much rather have based their awards on a medical opinion rather than just on badly designed forms.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by joglynne

Mol I think you are being very unfair if you are saying that organizations such as DialUK are there to help people milk the system and also, by making out that they are there to help scroungers, you risk putting off people who are genuinely in need of help from using their services.

The two relatives they came out to help for me had both had benefits refused mainly because my relatives, like a lot of people, had been to proud to put down in black and white, for all to see, just how much their disabilities effected their lives and it needs people such as the volunteers at DialUK to negotiate the mine field that the current claim forms produce.

The procedures for claiming disability benefits are atrocious. Succeeding Governments have added layer upon layer of red tape in an attempt to avoid just starting again from scratch and developing a system that could be used on a multi-agency platform.

No one enjoys hearing reports of people who have been getting any form of benefit that they are not entitled to but trying to stop that happening has, to some degree, also been the cause of a lot of the red tape that claimants have to get through to-day.

Having worked with staff trying to deal with disability claims I can tell you that they were not happy about some of the decisions they had to make and would much rather have based their awards on a medical opinion rather than just on badly designed forms.

No those organisations you mention do help the right people and offer a fantastic service, I think you misconstrued my meaning.

Any genuine person who has a disability gets put through the wringer because they are claiming what is genuinely theirs and these civil servants want to give as little as possible away to them, the is to much red tape which even now affects my brother and others like him who's circumstances will never ever alter but still have to go through the same process year after year.

My gripe is with these unemployment type centres that help people who have never done a tap of work and never ever intend to lift a finger if they can help it in their lifetime basically fiddle the system by wording their claims in the right way and telling them what to say in order to freeload off the system.

[joglynne]

Originally Posted by Moldova

No those organisations you mention do help the right people and offer a fantastic service, I think you misconstrued my meaning.

Any genuine person who has a disability gets put through the wringer because they are claiming what is genuinely theirs and these civil servants want to give as little as possible away to them, the is to much red tape which even now affects my brother and others like him who's circumstances will never ever alter but still have to go through the same process year after year.

My gripe is with these unemployment type centres that help people who have never done a tap of work and never ever intend to lift a finger if they can help it in their lifetime basically fiddle the system by wording their claims in the right way and telling them what to say in order to freeload off the system.

Sorry for the misunderstanding Mol. I did think that it was out of character for you to have a go at such a sterling organization.

I never came up against the type of centre you have described. Most of the "*******s" that came up against my department were there because someone had shopped them or they had become so blasé that they thought they could do what they wanted un-noticed...a certain window cleaner who "couldn't get out of his wheelchair unaided" but managed to shin up ladders comes to mind.

As I said earlier the whole Disability Benefit arena needs to be sorted out and simplified. I would ask that if anyone has dealings with a claims office they try not to take the systems failings out on the staff who have no control over the process as, up to my time of leaving, most of them were just as frustrated by the whole shebang as the claimants were. Mind, after wading through the process for relatives I can sympathize with the temptation to let blast at someone.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by joglynne

I never came up against the type of centre you have described. Most of the "*******s" that came up against my department were there because someone had shopped them or they had become so blasé that they thought they could do what they wanted un-noticed...a certain window cleaner who "couldn't get out of his wheelchair unaided" but managed to shin up ladders comes to mind.

They do have them in most towns and cities and are supposed to help everyone, I went one when my hip problem came to light and virtually everyone there was the type of person I mentioned above, I went in sat down and said I was there for some advice over my problem.

It started off all nice and cosy and then they asked the key question "What benefits are you on" at this point I said none I am in work, she said with an almost audible sharp intake of breath "If you are employed then the is not much we can do for you unless you pay a fee" I said no thanks you are alright I will find out for myself.

These places get funding from the local councils to help unemployed people to tell lies to the benefits agency so that they can claim disability allowances and such like, even my brother would be turned away by these offices.

These places are so wrong on so many levels but are still allowed to carry on.

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Osem

The trouble with determining disability is that not all forms of disability are physical and/or obvious so there has to be some level of expert involvement in the qualification process and that means assessments, forms etc. etc. The extent to which anyone can reduce this red tape is going to be limited but doing away with all the time consuming duplication involved in filling out the various lengthy forms for separate benefits/concessions would be a good start.

The best system it would seem to me is the claimants own GP deciding if he/she is able or fit, not some bureaucrat who no doubt has to refuse a percentage of claims to make the targets, or doesn't this or previous governments trust our GP's?
Imagine the savings by just letting the GP decide!! I mean who is better qualified than them?

Originally Posted by frogstamper

The best system it would seem to me is the claimants own GP deciding if he/she is able or fit, not some bureaucrat who no doubt has to refuse a percentage of claims to make the targets, or doesn't this or previous governments trust our GP's?
Imagine the savings by just letting the GP decide!! I mean who is better qualified than them?

Some GP's will give a person a sicknote just to get them out of the surgery. Some GP's are to quick in issuing sicknotes these days.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Nidge

Some GP's will give a person a sicknote just to get them out of the surgery. Some GP's are to quick in issuing sicknotes these days.

Sadly true!

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Nidge

Some GP's will give a person a sicknote just to get them out of the surgery. Some GP's are to quick in issuing sicknotes these days.

it was never just about a sick note plus in any case most would be seeing a specialist as well as a GP before qualifying for benefits

it is a far better way of doing things than having non qualified people deciding on this and who get it wrong so often the wrong way over half of appeals are successful which means a lot of disabled people have to go through even more red tape because of the incompetence of the current system

the whole idea that Dr's cant be trusted is daft and as far as i am concerned one put about to just keep civil servants in jobs who i definitely know i don't trust