atheists camp for kids

[downquark1]

You can listen to a radio interview about it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ld4w3

about 48 min in

---------- Post added at 13:39 ---------- Previous post was at 13:25 ----------

Well the times headline is indeed inaccurate. Dawkins is not involved in the scheme except in that his foundation made a single donation.

http://www.camp-quest.org.uk/media/p...inted-2862009/

Will the article get changed? no. It will just sit there attracting traffic and controversy over nothing.

So, in summary, in the Times headline "Dawkins sets up kids’ camp to groom atheists", the only accurate part was "kids' camp".

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by SMG

Children should be allowed to make their own minds up about religion & God. The problems start when people start to inflict their own beliefs upon their kids.

Keep your religion, & your beliefs to yourself. Live & let live,

Originally Posted by Russ B

So if my faith forms my moral outlook on the world, how do I keep that away from my daughter? Part of a parent's job is to do what they think is best for their children so why should I not bring her up in Christianity?

Why do people have such a big issue about parents teaching their kids the religion of their choice? If you are a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Bhuddist etc and religion plays a part in your life, then surely it's only natural to teach your kids about that religion and influence them into practising it (by your own actions and teachings). If Russ believes Christianity is best for his daughter, what's wrong with him wanting her to grow up a Christian.

There are a lot of parents who wish for their kids to go to university, graduate and get a job. Are they wrong for that? Is that not 'brainwashing'.

When it's religion or lack of everyone is up in arms, but in all honesty, on this forum its often the non religious ones dishing out all the allegations of criticism and poor parenting. As Forever said in an earlier post, why get so worked up. Live and let live.

---------- Post added at 15:20 ---------- Previous post was at 15:19 ----------

Is this the same Dawkins in the animal autopsy programme this week on TV?

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Is this the same Dawkins in the animal autopsy programme this week on TV?

Yes I understand that it is.

[lucy7]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Love doesn't have to be physical, it can be the meeting of two minds on a higher plane, intellects sparking off each other to create a synergy of ever-growing mental stimulation which can transcend mere physical limitations, which, when the two melded minds can take no more, can lead to a Phalacrocorax aristotelis.

Yea, but physical love is better

---------- Post added at 15:53 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

Originally Posted by foreverwar

So, in summary, in the Times headline "Dawkins sets up kids’ camp to groom atheists", the only accurate part was "kids' camp".

The Times is getting so like The Sun!

[SlackDad]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Why do people have such a big issue about parents teaching their kids the religion of their choice? If you are a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Bhuddist etc and religion plays a part in your life, then surely it's only natural to teach your kids about that religion and influence them into practising it (by your own actions and teachings). If Russ believes Christianity is best for his daughter, what's wrong with him wanting her to grow up a Christian.

There are a lot of parents who wish for their kids to go to university, graduate and get a job. Are they wrong for that? Is that not 'brainwashing'.

When it's religion or lack of everyone is up in arms, but in all honesty, on this forum its often the non religious ones dishing out all the allegations of criticism and poor parenting. As Forever said in an earlier post, why get so worked up. Live and let live.

Inevitably a child is going take on board some of the moral code/world view that their parent/s have, especially when they are very young and impressionable. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with this.

Ultimately as a parent I would hope that I've enabled my children to think independently and come to their own conclusions whatever they may be. Of course I would hope that they are similar to my own but if they are not then that is my problem, not theirs.

[Russ]

When anti-religionists hear that I (or any other parent doing similar) am bringing my daughter up in Christianity they automatically assume it'll be a strict anti-evolution, anti-science and anti-anything-non-christian upbringing.

Where they get that idea from I have no idea.

This is a Christian country. I belong to that faith. It makes sense that I want what I think is the best for her, therefore she'll have a Christian upbringing. Is she free to learn about other faiths? Of course, I don't want her growing up ignorant of other peoples' beliefs. Will I force her to go to church? No, why would I?

If she choses a different faith (or even atheism) then naturally I'll be disappointed but I'm not going to use force. I don't believe in parents making the decision of faith for you (*cough* Catholicism *cough*). If her heart isn't in it and doesn't make the choice herself (when she is old enough to) then in my eyes she isn't a Christian. If that happens then like I said I'll be disappointed but my hope that she does chose Christ will always be there.

And I think you'll find the majority of Christian families have a similar outlook. It's just the controversial ones that end up on Channel 4 documentaries.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I don't believe in parents making the decision of faith for you (*cough* Catholicism *cough*).

This is not unique to catholicism and you, by your own admission, are doing the exact same thing to your daughter until "she is old enough to" make her own decisions.

Faith grooming, in any denomination, is neither smart nor clever.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

This is not unique to catholicism and you, by your own admission, are doing the exact same thing to your daughter until "she is old enough to" make her own decisions.

You really need to wait until you know a little bit more about me before making comments like that. Firstly I mention Catholicism as it's the most common faith that people will have heard of that does the "let the parents decide" thing.

Secondly how you came to the assumption I'll be doing exactly the same is beyond me.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ B

You really need to wait until you know a little bit more about me before making comments like that. Firstly I mention Catholicism as it's the most common faith that people will have heard of that does the "let the parents decide" thing.

Secondly how you came to the assumption I'll be doing exactly the same is beyond me.

What I know about you is that you have "issues" with catholicism due to your own experiences and that you knock / debunk it at every opportunity (see the recent "Lourdes water" thread).

I came to the "assumption" because you stated that you would be advocating her practising a christian ethos until "she is old enough to" make her own decisions.

Fairly straightforward.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

What I know about you is that you have "issues" with catholicism due to your own experiences and that you knock / debunk it at every opportunity (see the recent "Lourdes water" thread).

Guilty as charged. I am very sceptical and uncomfortable with Catholic doctrine and I've never pretended otherwise.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I came to the "assumption" because you stated that you would be advocating her practising a christian ethos until "she is old enough to" make her own decisions.

A catholic upbringing is a lot more than having a 'Christian ethos'! Will she have it drummed in to her that to miss church on a sunday without good reason is a sin? No. Will she be told she has no choice but to take her 'Holy Communion'? No. Will she be told she has to attend 'Confession' (which has no biblical relevance anyway but that's a different story)? No.

That's just the surface of it but her upbringing so far is very different to that of a Catholic child.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ B

A catholic upbringing is a lot more than having a 'Christian ethos'! Will she have it drummed in to her that to miss church on a sunday without good reason is a sin? No. Will she be told she has no choice but to take her 'Holy Communion'? No. Will she be told she has to attend 'Confession' (which has no biblical relevance anyway but that's a different story)? No.

That's just the surface of it but her upbringing so far is very different to that of a Catholic child.

Well, you see, that's because you're not bringing her up as a catholic - that's a parental choice that you made for her, you see what I did there?

Additionally, several of the points you raise regarding sin, holy communion and confession have, I believe, changed somewhat since your, and indeed my, time as a catholic.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Well, you see, that's because you're not bringing her up as a catholic - that's a parental choice that you made for her, you see what I did there?

My moral code is based on my faith. She has no obligations.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Additionally, several of the points you raise regarding sin, holy communion and confession have, I believe, changed somewhat since your, and indeed my, time as a catholic.

Not around here they haven't - apparently God hasn't changed His mind about missing church being a 'sin'. The South Wales Diocese is as strict as they come. I don't believe in others making the choice of someone else's faith.

[roadwolf]

Originally Posted by Russ B

My moral code is based on my faith. She has no obligations.

Russ perhaps moral codes such as the one you practice can also be practiced by Aetheists, or even Buddhists. Maybe religion is not neccessary to live a good life.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by roadwolf

Russ perhaps moral codes such as the one you practice can also be practiced by Aetheists, or even Buddhists. Maybe religion is not neccessary to live a good life.

It's the life that I know and it's the upbringing that I as a parent consider to be the best. Others are obviously free to choose whatever path they deem appropriate.