Windows will not start

snodvan · 24-11-2004, 18:42

Dad has a Patriot "bookcase" machine. Win98SE, 400 Mhz Celeron. Used for Email, Word Processing and that is about all. Rather old but so is dad (86). Seems to me that something has become 'corrupted.

On startup all begins OK but then instead of normal Windows loading it defaults to SAFE mode - every time. Any clues please and advice on what error messages I should look for/ write down?

Biggest problem will be that dad has almost certainly not made any backup for a while so SOMEHOW I need to get his Outlook Express data files and MYDOCS folder off the machine. Normally I would do that with a USB memory stick - but they do not seem work in SFAE Mode. Feel sort of stumped. I am not adept enough to try removing the hard disk and doing a piggy back with that on another machine. I would be sure to goof that one up.

Nemesis · 24-11-2004, 18:44

What happens when you press F8 on boot up ?

Can you choose non-safe mode ?

If you can, does it error, if so, what does it say ?

snodvan · 24-11-2004, 18:47

I will just connect the machine up and then let you know

snodvan · 24-11-2004, 19:01

OK, have the thing running now. I tried pressing f8 on/off as the machine started and went through the first stage ie memory check - no effect. It then tried starting from CD (fail of course) end then showed the Win 98 Start Up Menu. If I select option 1 (normal) then it will default to Safe Mode telling me that Windows did not load correctly last time.

It then does the HiMem check (OK) then gives me a window saying that in Safe Mode I can "fix" the fault if I check the hardware/ network settings are ok in Control panel.

Sounds easy but does not mean a lot to me.

Nemesis · 24-11-2004, 19:05

ok, in safe mode ... right click the My Computer Icon and choose properties

There should be a Device Manager Tab ... chaeck that nothing looks out of the ordinary.

Check what has been installed recently .... Control Panel .. Add/Remove Programs.

Remove any programs that you either don't use or look suspicious.

What was your Dad doing last time it worked ok ?

Graham M · 24-11-2004, 19:14

Also, i dont know if anyone knows this but "Hiren's Boot CD" is very useful for Completely inoperable Windows boots to recover files, partition, ghost, clear drives out etc. Try Googling for it!

snodvan · 24-11-2004, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

ok, in safe mode ... right click the My Computer Icon and choose properties

There should be a Device Manager Tab ... chaeck that nothing looks out of the ordinary.

Check what has been installed recently .... Control Panel .. Add/Remove Programs.

Remove any programs that you either don't use or look suspicious.

What was your Dad doing last time it worked ok ?

OK, click on Hardware Profiles and all it says is "original configuration". Not a lot of help!

Device Manager - well, lots. All of them look OK ie they refer to devices that should be there eg the Alcatel USB modem, the ethernet adaptor and dal up modem, the drives

Looking in add/ remove progs the scene is more or less the same ie everything there looks like it should be there. I usually load programs for dad because his hand is a bit shaky at times so I know that all the progs present are those I have loaded - generally AGES ago.

I asked dad what he had 'done' recently and the answer was as expected - just checked his Outlook Express Email. He is a bit frail at the moment after a fall so there is not much else he would be doing.

Another few oddball observations (which may or may not help!)

a. If I select shut down from Safe Mode the screen blacks out within a few secs but the machine iotself does not switch off ie the front panel lights stay on, as does the fan. If I then try to switch off with the "off" button on the machine - it STARTS UP again. Infuriating.

b. Sometimes when it starts up and get to laoding SAFE mode it will simply "hang" at the blue screen +window emblem ie the bar at the bottom of the screen just stops moving.

24-11-2004, 21:39

Quote:

Device Manager - well, lots. All of them look OK ie they refer to devices that should be there eg the Alcatel USB modem, the ethernet adaptor and dal up modem, the drives

do any of the items in the 'device manager' display yellow question marks next to them?

Quote:

I asked dad what he had 'done' recently and the answer was as expected - just checked his Outlook Express Email. He is a bit frail at the moment after a fall so there is not much else he would be doing.

is it possible he may have inadvertently gone into the bios settings? I seem to remember that you can set the bios to always repeat the last behavior of the 'power on' button?

Otherwise, the trick with an ATX power supply is to hold the button in for about 5 seconds, when it doesn't seem to want to go 'off'. It should then work properly.

snodvan · 24-11-2004, 21:53

Stranger and stranger.

I remembered a thread a short while ago where someone said that if some bits of AVG get corrupted then that can well and truely screw up Windows to the point where it will not load.

OK, so I removed AVG.......closed the set down ....... started up again and BINGO, Windows loaded sort of normally.

Repeated the operation 3 times just to prove it was not a fluke and all was well each time.

HOWEVER - now just before the main desktop loads I get a message saying that Windows has updated the clock as a result of daylight saving and wants me to check that the callendar and clock are correct..... and they most certainly are not correct. They are back to what i suspect is the default setting of 20 October 1999

The PROBLEM is that even when I adjust the callendar/ claock and remember to click Apply - the next time I start up I am back to 20 October 1999 and Windows asks me to check the clock and reset it again.

Is this a symptom of the motherboard battery giving up?

That should not be the case because we had it replaced last year.

Any other ideas?

And another quick question - what are the file names/ extensions of Outlook Express datafiles and the address book? While the machine is working I will make a back up copy of those plus MYDocs. Any other essential files to back up?

snodvan · 24-11-2004, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by homealone

do any of the items in the 'device manager' display yellow question marks next to them?

[[ No, all are normal]]

is it possible he may have inadvertently gone into the bios settings? I seem to remember that you can set the bios to always repeat the last behavior of the 'power on' button?

[[With dad's shaky hand ANYTHING is possible but I have always told him to call me if he gets any screens asking lots of questions about how the machine operates]]

Otherwise, the trick with an ATX power supply is to hold the button in for about 5 seconds, when it doesn't seem to want to go 'off'. It should then work properly.

[Well, that sort of works. I select shut down from the menu and then after about 20 secs the monitor screen black for a moment - then shows the message "it is now safe to turn off the computer". Problem is the computer lights and fan are still ON. YES, holding the off button for 5 secs DOES cause a switch-off 'somewhere' because I can hear the click from inside the case. However, as soon as I release the button the machine starts up again. To get a complete switch off I need to throw the mains power switch on the wall - and I do not like to have to do that.

Nemesis · 24-11-2004, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by snodvan

Stranger and stranger.

I remembered a thread a short while ago where someone said that if some bits of AVG get corrupted then that can well and truely screw up Windows to the point where it will not load.

OK, so I removed AVG.......closed the set down ....... started up again and BINGO, Windows loaded sort of normally.

Repeated the operation 3 times just to prove it was not a fluke and all was well each time.

Good News .... You may need to reinstall this later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snodvan

HOWEVER - now just before the main desktop loads I get a message saying that Windows has updated the clock as a result of daylight saving and wants me to check that the callendar and clock are correct..... and they most certainly are not correct. They are back to what i suspect is the default setting of 20 October 1999

The PROBLEM is that even when I adjust the callendar/ claock and remember to click Apply - the next time I start up I am back to 20 October 1999 and Windows asks me to check the clock and reset it again.

Is this a symptom of the motherboard battery giving up?

That should not be the case because we had it replaced last year.

Yes it is symptomatic of a dodgy CMOS battery .... but can also indicate motherboard failure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snodvan

Any other ideas?

And another quick question - what are the file names/ extensions of Outlook Express datafiles and the address book? While the machine is working I will make a back up copy of those plus MYDocs. Any other essential files to back up?

If i remember ... you need to look for .PST and .PAB files.

snodvan · 24-11-2004, 22:15

I know .pst and . pab are the files for full Outlook (which I use) but some rusty memory said that OE used different file extensions. However, sure enough I did a search and there is a file on dad's machiine as .pst BUT there is no file .pab. Perhpas OE uses a different file extension only for the address book.

Nemesis · 24-11-2004, 22:17

These two links should help you

http://email.about.com/cs/oetipstricks/qt/et112502.htm
http://www.pchell.com/support/backupoe.shtml

24-11-2004, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by snodvan

I know .pst and . pab are the files for full Outlook (which I use) but some rusty memory said that OE used different file extensions. However, sure enough I did a search and there is a file on dad's machiine as .pst BUT there is no file .pab. Perhpas OE uses a different file extension only for the address book.

yes - look for *.dbx & maybe *.eml files if any have been exported, the address book is *.wab

<edit> good links, Mr Warlock

snodvan · 24-11-2004, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

These two links should help you

http://email.about.com/cs/oetipstricks/qt/et112502.htm
http://www.pchell.com/support/backupoe.shtml

Many thanks - just what I need. I now feel confident enough that the machine will power up/ down ok so I will pull the plug on it for tonight and start again tomorrow. I will change the motherboard battery anyway just to eliminate that as a cause. It is a real *** to get into this little notebook machine but I have done it once before (after having watched the guys in PC World do it the first time). Incidentally, I have to say that the guys in our PC world service centre are BRIL!. From personal experience they give good advice and are always helpful.

Thanks again