The existence of God - Page 43

papa smurf · 06-04-2009, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

The page you linked to.

Why would I want to read the rest of it when I know God exists? It's just the same worn-out arguments, the same lines taken out of context, it's nothing new.

Incidentally why are you so eager to try and get people to think God doesn't exist?

in my heart i know GOD is a myth and i feel its my duty to spread the word,and release people from the chains of religion .

Russ · 06-04-2009, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

in my heart i know GOD is a myth and i feel its my duty to spread the word,and release people from the chains of religion .

So don't you think it's hyporitical to complain about door-knockers and people who try to impose their faith on you when nobody here has done that to you?

papa smurf · 06-04-2009, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

So don't you think it's hyporitical to complain about door-knockers and people who try to impose their faith on you when nobody here has done that to you?

its only a link quoting Bible passages with a differing point of view , you quote bible passages all the time ..
so no i don't think I'm hypocritical I'm following the trend .

**Hugh** · 06-04-2009, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

in my heart i know GOD is a myth and i feel its my duty to spread the word,and release people from the chains of religion .

A militant atheist - woo hoo!

How can you make someone not believe something?

Russ · 06-04-2009, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

its only a link quoting Bible passages with a differing point of view ,

No, it's taking one or two lines and using them out of context, usual tactics from a militant atheist site. For example, if you wanted to try and prove I'm a dangerous driver, and I mentioned something like "someone cut me up the other day on the motorway, he almost ran me off the road. I felt like cutting him up too but then I calmed down and went on my way" but you only read where I said I wanted to cut him up and made the decision I'm dangerous driver because apparently I cut people up all the time.

It's called only seeing what you want to see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

you quote bible passages all the time ..

Firstly no I don't. I've done it once in the last 9 months. See what I mean? Only seeing what you want to see, even if it's not actually there.

In any case what I quoted was from a book. It's a matter of literary record. What you just posted was your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

so no i don't think I'm hypocritical I'm following the trend .

You're not following any trend. None of us have tried to change anyone's views and impose our beliefs on anyone.

---------- Post added at 18:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:03 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

A militant atheist - woo hoo!

I knew it would only be a matter of time before they showed their faces

**Maggy** · 06-04-2009, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

in my heart i know GOD is a myth and i feel its my duty to spread the word,and release people from the chains of religion .

Why not just mind your own business?

idi banashapan · 06-04-2009, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Why would I want to read the rest of it when I know God exists? It's just the same worn-out arguments, the same lines taken out of context, it's nothing new.

Incidentally why are you so eager to try and get people to think God doesn't exist?

out of interest, what do you see God as? you say you know 'he' exists, but what exactly is 'he', without covering all bases and saying something getout-clausey and non-descript like "he's everything".... and how do you know? is it a gut feeling or have you had first hand experiences?

This is open to all those who believe in God or Gods by the way.

As I've already said, I believe there is something far greater than us out there somewhere, but what, where, how, who and why, I really don't know. Maybe I'm just hoping that there is more to existance than meets the eye, because it would be pretty pants if this was it. us on a rock spinning in nothingness....

papa smurf · 06-04-2009, 17:32

[QUOTE=Russ B;34769945]No, it's taking one or two lines and using them out of context, usual tactics from a militant atheist site. For example, if you wanted to try and prove I'm a dangerous driver, and I mentioned something like "someone cut me up the other day on the motorway, he almost ran me off the road. I felt like cutting him up too but then I calmed down and went on my way" but you only read where I said I wanted to cut him up and made the decision I'm dangerous driver because apparently I cut people up all the time.

It's called only seeing what you want to see.

gosh you right i'm turning into you .

and i hope your driving improves

Russ · 06-04-2009, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender

out of interest, what do you see God as? you say you know 'he' exists, but what exactly is 'he', without covering all bases and saying something getout-clausey and non-descript like "he's everything".... and how do you know? is it a gut feeling or have you had first hand experiences?

What I see God as could easily differ from what someone else does, so I'm not saying my views are representational of anyone. Our relationship with God is personal and unique.

It's very hard to put in to words but I see God as a presence, albeit a totally good, loving and just presence.

You know when you walk in to a pub and there's a jovial, happy atmosphere? That's a presence.

I don't see God as a man with a long white beard etc, I don't even see him as a physical being. Time is a physical concept and only applies to physical matter, and he transcends time and dimension.

You ask how I 'know' - well, I don't. I just go on what feels right to me. Have I seen God? No, none of us ever would, at least not on this plane of existence. Have I heard him? Audibly - no. But he has communicated with me. I'm not going to tell you how or what it was about as it's always been very personal matters but what I will say is I believe he helped me choose my daughter's middle name.

One day I was wondering what name to go with. I had a few in mind, all biblical names (Rebecca, Sarah, Hannah, Ruth, they're all biblical names although those weren't in the running) so one day I was praying/meditating and then BANG out of the blue, one of the names shone brightly in my mind, brighter than anything I'd ever imagined. Each letter of the word was lit up by loads of bulbs. I took that as a sign of what he wanted me to give my daughter as a middle name.

I don't care if anyone doesn't believe me, I seriously could not care less. The above is just about the only communication I've had that I'm willing to talk about. The others, with all due respect, are my concern only.

idi banashapan · 06-04-2009, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

What I see God as could easily differ from what someone else does, so I'm not saying my views are representational of anyone. Our relationship with God is personal and unique.

I would not expect to ever get 2 descriptions the same from different people.

Do you not feel that it is entirely possible that 'God' is within you, rather than some external force? could it not be true that God is a way for people to put a name on their own confidence and strength that they call on when they feel low or find themselves in turmoil or distress? A psychological aid, if you will. like in times of danger and the body produces increased amounts of adrenaline giving the father who is rescuing his child what seem to be super-human strengths? perhaps when those who believe in God call upon him, they are finding a way to jump start their bodies into releasing endorphins to calm and relax the mind and body. much like the meditation / prayer practices you mentioned when your daughter middle name came to you...

please don't think I am trying to 'convert' you to a scientific way of thinking. you believe in God, and I think that is good. I'm just asking if you would personally put things down to God, rather than physical happenings that we don't have full control over - subconscious things to an extent in the above example...

Russ · 06-04-2009, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender

I'm just asking if you would personally put things down to God, rather than physical happenings that we don't have full control over - subconscious things to an extent...

"Would" I put things down to God?

I already do - and have done for about 7 years.

The leap of faith I took was that no it's not all just "within me", but in the hands of God. That's what the basis of our faith is. I don't put each and every decision I make down to God - I'm sure he's not too bothered about what I have for dinner tonight. But he's there should I need to have something answered. And it's not simply a case of yes or no. "Not yet" is an answer, as is "you are currently where you need to be". Yes there are physical things we have no control over, but he does. We aren't to be reckless, for example no wearing a seatbelt because God will look after us. We are not to test him, that's a sign of weakened faith.

lucy7 · 06-04-2009, 18:24

Russ.................sorry to be so personal here.
You have spent a lot of time on this thread, even Sunday morning, when most of us believers were at our varoius congregational meetings, unless you have a meeting at another time of course!

Do you not feel it may be best to spend time in a more constuctive way, then continuing to post on a thread that you earlier said you had unsubsribed to.

You are rising to every bait that is been cast your way, and even reading stuff in to stuff that has not been intended.

I realise you have come under personal attack about your beliefs on previous occassions, but are you really happy to continue to keep typing on this thread and keep playing to the audience??

This is not a personal attack by the way, but an observation which I do know others are thinking too.

Peace be with you!

Russ · 06-04-2009, 18:29

Problem with being an admin, you can't simply 'ignore' threads

I'm not really rising to anything - through various channels I've had positive feedback and comments even from other atheists who although their stance hasn't changed, are happy to be enlightened on certain matters.

As for the personal attacks, like I mentioned in the other thread they stopped a long time ago now. What I'm finding these days is the ones who want to be cynical and mischievous are only showing themselves in a bad light. If that's what they want to do then who am I to stop them....

lucy7 · 06-04-2009, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Problem with being an admin, you can't simply 'ignore' threads

I'm not really rising to anything - through various channels I've had positive feedback and comments even from other atheists who although their stance hasn't changed, are happy to be enlightened on certain matters.

As for the personal attacks, like I mentioned in the other thread they stopped a long time ago now. What I'm finding these days is the ones who want to be cynical and mischievous are only showing themselves in a badlight. If that's what they want to do then who am I to stop them....

Good reply!

I would of stepped away long ago......................

idi banashapan · 06-04-2009, 19:15

I think at first, when the thread started, Russ did think this was going to be a bible bashing type of scenario. I'm hoping now that he can see I wasn't trying to start a war here. I'm actually interested in what people have to say, what drives tham and how they interpret things.

The last few answers Russ has given me have been a great example of that, as with Chris's responses early on in this one and I thank them both for that.

Us non-believers are not all out to get you Russ, nor to make you look silly or flawed. as has been established, it's about faith. I'm just interested in the forces behind that faith and why people think the way they do.