The existence of God - Page 34

DRZ400 · 05-04-2009, 12:19

A talking sheep I think you'll find has exactly the same probability as the existence of god.

Russ · 05-04-2009, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

But I think this is what makes people find it not credible. calling something a miracle as a justification for something that would be seen today as laughable.

it's like a talking sheep

So if I'm understanding this right, people such as yourself would be far more inclined to believe in a miracle if was explained away in human terms?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Russ the world is full of cranks. be they atheists or not. do you believe that some believers can be these kind of people?
this is not meant in anyway to be disrespectful to anyone, but do believers know that these people possibly don't even know the true cause of their belief?

Indeed the world is full of cranks, each section of society has them. There's nothing to suggest religion has any more of them than other groups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

A talking sheep I think you'll find has exactly the same probability as the existence of god.

If you can find any facts to back that up with then I'll agree

Sir John Luke · 05-04-2009, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

If you can find any facts to back that up with then I'll agree

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...reducation.uk1

DRZ400 · 05-04-2009, 12:32

There are no facts to back up the existence of God or a talking sheep for that matter, that's what the problem is!

Just because a billion people believe in something, doesn't make it a fact.

Has anyone seen Religulous yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkyLrDpaUg

Gary L · 05-04-2009, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

So if I'm understanding this right, people such as yourself would be far more inclined to believe in a miracle if was explained away in human terms?

I don't think it would. I don't think it could be explained away in human terms anough to make it credible. that's what I'm saying.

Quote:

Indeed the world is full of cranks, each section of society has them. There's nothing to suggest religion has any more of them than other groups.

I didn't suggest that it did. I asked about whether normal believers care whether these people possibly don't really know the true cause of their belief.

Sir John Luke · 05-04-2009, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

There are no facts to back up the existence of God or a talking sheep for that matter, that's what the problem is!

Just because a billion people believe in something, doesn't make it a fact.

Has anyone seen Religulous yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkyLrDpaUg

<pedant>

Surely if something is a fact, it has 100% probability?

</pedant>

Russ · 05-04-2009, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

There are no facts to back up the existence of God or a talking sheep for that matter, that's what the problem is!

Just because a billion people believe in something, doesn't make it a fact.

No-one is saying the existence of God is a fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Has anyone seen Religulous yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkyLrDpaUg

Been done to death - you're 6 months late http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/23...eligulous.html

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

I don't think it would. I don't think it could be explained away in human terms anough to make it credible. that's what I'm saying.

So if it can'r be explained in human terms then it cannot be true?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

I didn't suggest that it did. I asked about whether normal believers care whether these people possibly don't really know the true cause of their belief.

In my eyes, no. I don't make any judgement on someone else's faith in their religion. It's none of my business. If I'm asked my opinion, that's different. But that's as far as it goes.

Gary L · 05-04-2009, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

No-one is saying the existence of God is a fact.

If God doesn't exist then Jesus can't surely? the Bible was about God and Jesus. that's what brings it all together. I'm surprised you said that now

Russ · 05-04-2009, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

If God doesn't exist then Jesus can't surely? the Bible was about God and Jesus. that's what brings it all together. I'm surprised you said that now

In that case I'll say it again - no-one (myself included) is saying the existence of God is fact.

Gary L · 05-04-2009, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

So if it can'r be explained in human terms then it cannot be true?

Russ this is what I've been saying all the time. when a question is asked such as this one. there is no answer other than what you have just said.

I'm not saying that you have to answer. but don't you even question it?
you must question things happening in life all the time. and that one has to be more extraordinary than the things you do question as to why today.

DRZ400 · 05-04-2009, 12:46

Russ ... if you don't believe 100% that God exists, why are you debating Gods existence?

Gary L · 05-04-2009, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

In that case I'll say it again - no-one (myself included) is saying the existence of God is fact.

No-one? so how can the Bible be true then? if it is true then why the mention of God in it. if people who believe the rest are not sure if that part is fact

Russ · 05-04-2009, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Russ this is what I've been saying all the time. when a question is asked such as this one. there is no answer other than what you have just said.

I'm not saying that you have to answer. but don't you even question it?
you must question things happening in life all the time. and that one has to be more extraordinary than the things you do question as to why today.

All this demonstrates to me is you have a complete ignorance and misunderstanding of Christianity (and maybe other religions too but I don't know enough about them to comment).

The basis of Christianity is faith. If evidence is sought and subsequently found then there is no longer any need for faith as it then becomes evidence.

In the war of science vs religion, when it comes to absolute proof science wins on many levels. But that's because the 2 viewpoints require different criteria.

Say if I was to produce some sort of artifact which, in scientific terms proved that God was watching over us. Where's the need for faith?

Some chose Christianity because of the rewards that faith offers them. I respect that notion but it's not just what motivates me. I chose it because it makes more sense to me.

I will say to anyone that God is very real and all around us because I experience what He has done and he has spoken to me (don't bother - it was very very personal and no it wasn't a voice in my head) but can I produce a mathematic formula to prove it? No but then again neither can I prove the fact that I'm going to enjoy Wrestlemania tonight but I know I will anyway.

---------- Post added at 13:54 ---------- Previous post was at 13:52 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Russ ... if you don't believe 100% that God exists, why are you debating Gods existence?

I didn't say I don't believe 100% that He exists, I said it's not a fact as it cannot be proven. See above about 'faith'.

DRZ400 · 05-04-2009, 12:57

I had a Jehovahs Witness knock on my door once. I opened the door and his first line was enthusiastically 'Did you know the bible is 100% correct' ..... I'd just seen Religulous and remembered the line 'A talking snake, you're going to stand infront of me and hand on heart, tell me you believe in a talking snake'.

I've never seen anyone look so sheepish in my life, he looked at his shoes and said 'Yes', I wished him a good day and off he went.

Gary L · 05-04-2009, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

I will say to anyone that God is very real and all around us because I experience what He has done and he has spoken to me

Quote:

I didn't say I don't believe 100% that He exists, I said it's not a fact as it cannot be proven. See above about 'faith'.

Don't take this as mocking, but it has to be asked.
you said no-one. I don't think you mean no-one as everyone in and outside this thread. but you say you are not 100% sure that God exists. but as I said it has to be asked. the talking snakes you say unless proved otherwise were real, and you say that it's about faith, and faith is belief. I've always accepted that it was about that.

but if you start doubting God then the talking snakes and Jesus have to be doubted too as it was God that was the major role with both of them?