The existence of God

Originally Posted by Gary L

What about those who don't want to suffer and be subject to pain, who don't know how to ask for help? or those who might not know how, or don't want to ask for the help in stopping subjecting the pain?

To me it's all about if you don't ask you don't get. if you don't let him know that you think he's great he doesn't want to know and will ignore you.

Who doesn't know how to help? God doesn't respond exclusively to the Church of England's Book of Common Prayer you know. Believe it or not he's pretty keen to talk whether or not you're a churchgoer or not.

Every child knows how to ask for and receive help. Getting help is something adults eventually choose not to do, not vice versa.

I'm not going to claim that the proper response by a human to God is anything other than, or less than, worship or adoration, but again, I think your view is a bit distorted. God isn't looking for worship as a precondition of anything. On the contrary, worship is the natural response that comes after people realise who he is. He is quite happy to help people realise who he is without any preconditions, other than for them to be willing to listen and to learn.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by xocemp

Yes I could answer questions in between but I don't want to for now, I'm taking in what you post and 'learning'.

---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Who doesn't know how to help?

who doesn't know how to ask for help

God doesn't respond exclusively to the Church of England's Book of Common Prayer you know. Believe it or not he's pretty keen to talk whether or not you're a churchgoer or not.

Every child knows how to ask for and receive help. Getting help is something adults eventually choose not to do, not vice versa.

If every child knows how to ask for help, then does he ignore them when they do?
Why don't they get the help? do they have to say the word God in the sentence?

I am do not attend church, I do not pray everyday. So Gary, if I ask from time to time some help from God does that mean I'll be ignored?

[mischievious]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Why what?

I was referring to your misguided opinion that if there were a GOD it wouldn't be possible to survive the "Big Bang"....

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Chris

Who doesn't know how to help? God doesn't respond exclusively to the Church of England's Book of Common Prayer you know. Believe it or not he's pretty keen to talk whether or not you're a churchgoer or not.

Every child knows how to ask for and receive help. Getting help is something adults eventually choose not to do, not vice versa.

I'm not going to claim that the proper response by a human to God is anything other than, or less than, worship or adoration, but again, I think your view is a bit distorted. God isn't looking for worship as a precondition of anything. On the contrary, worship is the natural response that comes after people realise who he is. He is quite happy to help people realise who he is without any preconditions, other than for them to be willing to listen and to learn.

Chris please don't take this as being offensive in any way, but a question I've always been interested in asking people of faith is, "how are you or others so aware of what God actually wants"?
Is for example the above post opinions that you have deduced that God wants from say talking to other theologians or reading the bible or the like, or is it more than that.
One of the reasons I'm asking is that I've seen quite a few religious programs lately on TV whereby a group of people from varying religions all claim to know what God wants, surely they can't all be right.?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by mischievious

I was referring to your misguided opinion that if there were a GOD it wouldn't be possible to survive the "Big Bang"....

It was something I read somewhere. that God wouldn't have survived the Big Bang. if you say that it's misguided. does that mean that he did?
How did he survive the Big Bang?
or if there was a God, how would he survive I should say.

---------- Post added at 00:38 ---------- Previous post was at 00:32 ----------

Originally Posted by frogstamper

Chris please don't take this as being offensive in any way, but a question I've always been interested in asking people of faith is, "how are you or others so aware of what God actually wants"?
Is for example the above post opinions that you have deduced that God wants from say talking to other theologians or reading the bible or the like, or is it more than that.
One of the reasons I'm asking is that I've seen quite a few religious programs lately on TV whereby a group of people from varying religions all claim to know what God wants, surely they can't all be right.?

I'm being blunt again. it's from the Bible.

[mischievious]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I think man created God. the reason being is that what I have stated before. I believe that if there were a God he wouldn't allow suffering/torture and pain.

This view is far too two dimensional. Please could you define the GOD that you don't believe exists????

Your statement makes claims of your fictional GOD which in order to appraise your stance requires an explanation.

For me though GOD is given a general a general omniscience value it can be argued that this boils down to inherent omniscience rather than total omniscience. The distiction being that GOD would have to choose to know about "you" for instance. This would mean in general he knows nothing of "you" until/unless something occurrs to focus his/her/its attention and at that moment all knowledge about you is known.

[frogstamper]

I've got to try and answer your question of "how did God survive the big bang".
First of let me start by saying that as an atheist I don't believe that God even exists, let alone was responsible for the creation of the universe.
But putting that aside for a moment, if I were a person of faith and believed that God did create the universe, surly if he were able to do such a thing he would have made provisions to keep himself "safe" in the process, presumably outside of our universe.
That's what I would say, if I believed in it.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by mischievious

This view is far too two dimensional. Please could you define the GOD that you don't believe exists????

Where does one start to describe something that doesn't exist?

For me though GOD is given a general a general omniscience value it can be argued that this boils down to inherent omniscience rather than total omniscience. The distiction being that GOD would have to choose to know about "you" for instance. This would mean in general he knows nothing of "you" until/unless something occurrs to focus his/her/its attention and at that moment all knowledge about you is known.

You're going to have one hell of an hangover in the morning

---------- Post added at 01:10 ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 ----------

Originally Posted by frogstamper

I've got to try and answer your question of "how did God survive the big bang".
First of let me start by saying that as an atheist I don't believe that God even exists, let alone was responsible for the creation of the universe.
But putting that aside for a moment, if I were a person of faith and believed that God did create the universe, surly if he were able to do such a thing he would have made provisions to keep himself "safe" in the process, presumably outside of our universe.
That's what I would say, if I believed in it.

Do you think he sent someone else to do it while he kept away at a safe distance?
Ok, joking aside. what defences did God use to survive the Big Bang? seeing as the universe is infinite?

[mischievious]

Originally Posted by Chris

I realise the suffering I am causing other people and ask him to help where I acknowlege I'm powerless.

As with Gary?

Originally Posted by Gary L

To me it's all about if you don't ask you don't get.

So you're saying if you don't pray, don't expect anything?

Regarding the "Big Bang" thing surely you can see you are attributing Mortal concepts to a possibly immortal deity? The rules simply don't apply.

Though it is possible that the reason for GOD's omniscience is a direct result of unwilling participation of the original experiment/project... i.e. he/she/it was sucked in and scattered accross the universe

I

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Where does one start to describe something that doesn't exist?



You're going to have one hell of an hangover in the morning

---------- Post added at 01:10 ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 ----------



Do you think he sent someone else to do it while he kept away at a safe distance?
Ok, joking aside. what defences did God use to survive the Big Bang? seeing as the universe is infinite?

I haven't a clue, maybe he has Asgard shields or something you say the universe is infinite, but of course it isn't, its just very big as claimed in the Hitch-hikers guide to the galaxy.
Also don't forget that at the point before creation there was no universe as we understand it, so if I were to guess I'd say its comparable with a scientist doing an experiment in a lab whereby observes from outside, he doesn't get in the test tube.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Chris

I think that says more about how you would like people to see you living your life than it does about anyone else.

and i think if my post hadn't hit a raw nerve you would have simply ignored it,now what does that say about the way you live your life ?..

[lucy7]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

this is how i depict God it's for those who's lives need something to lean on.

When I saw this post and the crutch, it made me laugh!

I get all sorts when I go knocking on doors, have not been offended once by non believers personal attacks on my belief in God. When respect is used to talk to others about God, people will listen, They may not believe or understand what you are on about, but some seeds may be planted!

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by lucy7

When I saw this post and the crutch, it made me laugh!

I get all sorts when I go knocking on doors, have not been offended once by non believers personal attacks on my belief in God. When respect is used to talk to others about God, people will listen, They may not believe or understand what you are on about, but some seeds may be planted!

What if they stay in a flat and don't have a garden

[lucy7]

Originally Posted by xocemp

I am do not attend church, I do not pray everyday. So Gary, if I ask from time to time some help from God does that mean I'll be ignored?

The scriptures say, that one walking in Gods ways will have his prayers listened to.

Often it is stated that folk turn to God during vunerable times in their lives, and believers then swoop on them and try to convert them.
I feel at these times people just actually start to question what is life all about, and may then start to think about is there a God or not, and may then check things out for them selves.

I still have an each to their own attitude about folks beliefs.
Only one of my own adult children belief in God, they hear about God in this house, and still have the right and free will to choose not to follow in my footsteps.

Its called each to their own and free will!

I respect that, I may not like it, but hey ho thats just the way it is.

---------- Post added at 08:55 ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 ----------

Originally Posted by harmitage

What if they stay in a flat and don't have a garden

Arh well..............all these apartment blocks springing up over the place makes things very difficult to chat to folks on the doors!

Its very difficult to have a conversation over the intercom!

Does not stop us trying though