steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?

As long as the bnp are a legal political party in the UK they have to be accorded the same status and rights such as they are of all the other political partys. I completely dislike them and everything they stand for and would prefer they didn't exist but until such time as people in this country kill them off by not becoming members or they do something that allows whatever government to ban them as an organisation then they must recieve the same treatment as any other party.

Sorry but it is simply wrong to dismiss someone from a job who by all accounts did that job well and to the best of his ability dealing with all sections of society fairly and equally purely because he is a member of a legal UK political party. We don't have to like the bnp or anything about them to make the point that this is wrong and should never have happened and that is putting aside the fact that his membership however that might have come about was bought to light by an illegal act in the first place.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't see where I was trying to paint you as racist or stupid. I can't see where I even hinted at such an accusation but sorry if that was the case, it was not my intention.

In that case, I apologise too.

I don't want them banned, but I still feel free to label them racist because of their policies and their actions. I see no conflict with my political views in that. I am not the only one to dismiss them as racist either; there have been countless undercover investigations, statements from former high-level members and their own constitution (re: The White Britain thing).

The 'due process' issue is redundant here as there is no criminal trail for being racist, nor should there be. I don't view being racist as a criminal offensive and I am not suggesting they be thrown in jail for such a offensive based on my personal belief that they are a racist party.

The issue isn't redundant. If the BNP posed a serious, credible threat to the security of the country (which includes increasing racial tensions - arguably something they do in Bradford and Oldham) then they can be banned immediately under the Terrorism act. Many organisations have already been done that. If they are "harmless" yet still racist (by some legal standard), then i'm sure there would be a legal recourse.

You think the BNP isn't banned because there is no tool to do it, but I do think its because the case isn't as strong as people would like to believe - if held up to a recognised judicial standard.

[Womble]

The BNP are a legit political party, just because you don't share their views, doesn't make it OK to ban them! I cant stand the Labour party, but you cant ban them. Neither do I like the fact we have terrorists in Parliament, but the political process is favourable to what was going on in NI!
As I've said, the BNP serve a purpose, they make the Tories and Labour acceptable faces of politics!!
Also, if the main parties dealt with immigration/segregation properly there would be no need for them, but they are becoming more popular, which goes to show people are desperate.

As for the ex-copper, how can he be a member, and be impartial? That said, they should also ban membership to the masons!

---------- Post added at 00:35 ---------- Previous post was at 00:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But when the police service is still inherently institutionally racist, there is still a need for this association. It promotes good race relations and equality of opportunity, within the police services of the United Kingdom and the wider community.

Not for white officers it doesn't, its no better than the BNP, its a racist organisation by the fact it excludes white officers

[nomadking]

The BNP doesn't exclude on the basis of race. IIRC there has been at least one report of a non-white member.

Do the Black Police Association, Jewish groups, Muslim groups, Afro-Caribbean groups etc (its a very long list) exclude anybody?

Never understood why where a particular type of group (eg a deaf club) is largely based on location eg Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle etc, certain races/faiths have their own club that is not based on location. So they may live in Leeds but not belong to the Leeds branch of that type of club, but to the race/faith based one. That is racism.

If he was a member by personal choice and there seems to be some doubt about that it is entirely possible for him to have some support for some of the moderate policys of the bnp and still leave his political affiliation at the door when he went to work and that seems to be what happened. Remember this is an officer that had other officers who were ethnic minority members standing up for him so he can't have been the usual knuckle dragging bnp member could he.

[Womble]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Do the Black Police Association, Jewish groups, Muslim groups, Afro-Caribbean groups etc (its a very long list) exclude anybody?

I challenge a white officer to join!!, bet he gets knocked back!

Originally Posted by nomadking

The BNP doesn't exclude on the basis of race. IIRC there has been at least one report of a non-white member.

Do the Black Police Association, Jewish groups, Muslim groups, Afro-Caribbean groups etc (its a very long list) exclude anybody?

Never understood why where a particular type of group (eg a deaf club) is largely based on location eg Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle etc, certain races/faiths have their own club that is not based on location. So they may live in Leeds but not belong to the Leeds branch of that type of club, but to the race/faith based one. That is racism.

They have had a token non-white member (an Asian) in one of their videos. I admit to be unsure of their specific membership policy but I do know what their constitution says and it states that membership is for the indigenous population. It also states that policy should apply for membership of Great Britain PLC.

Technically, As my family tree is not long established in this country I would also be kicked out. Although I believe since I am White they might overlook it.

As for the other groups you mention, that is a tricky area I am not totally comfortable with. However Religious groups make sense, why should an Atheist attend a Christian club? (They may well still be welcome though!). That is a club formed out of a common interest.

Others are formed in relation to cultures, An Asian society at a University is not racist, it's a way for Asians (and others) to keep in touch with their culture. We, as White Brits, do not need such a society since we live in our culture.

The only one that may be considered racist is where their membership is limited by race and it's goal is to either promote their own race at the expense of others or promote race inequality by any other means. I would consider those groups racist.

[Womble]

Originally Posted by Damien

The only one that may be considered racist is where their membership is limited by race and it's goal is to either promote their own race at the expense of others or promote race inequality by any other means. I would consider those groups racist.

That'll be the black police officers association then!!

[nomadking]

If you live in Leeds, are deaf and Jewish, you should join the Leeds Deaf club not the Jewish Deaf Club. There is no real justification for doing otherwise.

Originally Posted by nomadking

If you live in Leeds, are deaf and Jewish, you should join the Leeds Deaf club not the Jewish Deaf Club. There is no real justification for doing otherwise.

Eh?

Unless you want to discuss your shared religion, heritage, culture and matters that affect/are relevant to Jewish people.

---------- Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

The BNP doesn't exclude on the basis of race. IIRC there has been at least one report of a non-white member.

Do the Black Police Association, Jewish groups, Muslim groups, Afro-Caribbean groups etc (its a very long list) exclude anybody?

Never understood why where a particular type of group (eg a deaf club) is largely based on location eg Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle etc, certain races/faiths have their own club that is not based on location. So they may live in Leeds but not belong to the Leeds branch of that type of club, but to the race/faith based one. That is racism.

Could we have some more info on this mythical "non-white" member, as it would appear if he/she exists, he/she is breaking the membership rules of our BNP chummies.

BNP Constitution page 4, Section 2:Membership
"1) The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.

2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.
3) Membership of the party shall be open only to those who are 16 years of age or over and whose ethnic origin is listed within Sub-section 2"

[Derek]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Could we have some more info on this mythical "non-white" member, as it would appear if he/she exists, he/she is breaking the membership rules of our BNP chummies.

Oi. No bringing facts into this, you're getting in the way of a perfectly good rant

Originally Posted by foreverwar

BNP Constitution page 4, Section 2:Membership
"1) The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.

2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.
3) Membership of the party shall be open only to those who are 16 years of age or over and whose ethnic origin is listed within Sub-section 2"

So no need to be British as long as your white?

Originally Posted by Damien

So no need to be British as long as your white?

And like Folk Music, apparently....

Originally Posted by Damien

So no need to be British as long as your white?

That seems to be the long and the short of it. I don't know why some people want to beat around the bush here. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. The BNP's recruitment policy is explicitly based on race. That makes it racist. A turd by any other name would smell as nasty.

Originally Posted by Womble

I challenge a white officer to join!!, bet he gets knocked back!

Wrong.

Here's a statement from the homepage of the National Black Police Association:

The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour. The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism. Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)

So how many white police officers are members of the NBPA i am asking purely as i am curious if they say it is open to everyone.