steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by martyh

"The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia. We use the term indigenous to describe the people whose ancestors were the earliest settlers here after the last great Ice Age and which have been complemented by the historic migrations from mainland Europe.The migrations of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Norse and closely related kindred peoples have been, over the past few thousands years, instrumental in defining the character of our family of nations."

i would suggest that more and more people are subscribing to these views even if they are scared to admit it

" I . . . . . of . . . . . do solemnly and sincerely
declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the
Queen in the office of constable

i think they need to change the wording of the oath we live in the 21st century now the police serve the public by OUR consent ,they should remember that we can remove that consent if they get too big for their boots

why on earth would we change an oath for such a minority party

---------- Post added at 21:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

Originally Posted by frogstamper

Your right Arthur the UK will not be the "United Kingdom" if ever the BNP got into power.
As regards the policeman who was kicked out I'll just say this, how many would be complaining about political freedom if the situation were reversed and some bearded muslim was kicked out of the Met for belonging to an extreme Islamic group?
I'm sure we would understand why, so whats different with this guy and the BNP? in my book there is no difference neither belongs in a position of trust and authority.

[basa]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Keep your eye on the girl who takes a leaflet at 1:25, she appears to find it fascinating....

Yep just the sort of responsible young person this country needs - another litter lout.

Well I suppose it keeps all those immigrants working in the jobs us proud Brits don't want!

[QUOTE=rogermevans;34759063]why on earth would we change an oath for such a minority party

not for the party, and whatever made you think that,but to reflect the fact that they serve us (the general public)

---------- Post added at 21:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

[rogerdraig]

[quote=martyh;34759078]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

why on earth would we change an oath for such a minority party

not for the party, and whatever made you think that,but to reflect the fact that they serve us (the general public)

---------- Post added at 21:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

but they dont they act for the government as they should !

to have a force not doing so would lead to anarchy


your mp is the one who serves you ( or at least the majority of voters ) and then passes the laws the police should abide by in enforcing and keeping themselves

[QUOTE=rogermevans;34759084]

Originally Posted by martyh

but they dont they act for the government as they should !

to have a force not doing so would lead to anarchy


your mp is the one who serves you ( or at least the majority of voters ) and then passes the laws the police should abide by in enforcing and keeping themselves

the police ,the government are CIVIL SERVANTS the clue's in the name
any laws past or any law upheld is (or should be)with the publics consent
and i am not suggesting we should get rid of the police, that's ridiculous,what i am saying is that they forget they in the position they are in because we (general public) say they are.It's very easy to forget how much power we (general public)have if we can be bothered.For example in the case quoted in this thread if enough people said they wanted the rule in question removed and the officer re-instated then the police would have no alternative but to abide by the publics choice

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by martyh

It's very easy to forget how much power we (general public)have if we can be bothered.For example in the case quoted in this thread if enough people said they wanted the rule in question removed and the officer re-instated then the police would have no alternative but to abide by the publics choice

There is absolutely no chance, nor should there be, that this guy could be re-instated even if there were to be a wave of public sympathy for him, that way lies the rule of the mob if the police or the government were to kowtow to public pressure.
Your right in one aspect though, we the public do have a lot of influence and that influence is exercised at the ballot box, that's the way to change laws we don't agree with.
If the policeman in question had used a bit of common sense he would never have joined the BNP, he could have just voted for them in the privacy of the polling booth, luckily for us he didn't have the savvy to do that.
As regards whether or not its right to forbid serving police officers from being a member of a hate party I'd have thought the answer would be blindingly obvious, he knew the rules and he either broke or ignored them, either way the outcome was always going to be a foregone conclusion.

[rogerdraig]

[quote=martyh;34759109]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

the police ,the government are CIVIL SERVANTS the clue's in the name
any laws past or any law upheld is (or should be)with the publics consent
and i am not suggesting we should get rid of the police, that's ridiculous,what i am saying is that they forget they in the position they are in because we (general public) say they are.It's very easy to forget how much power we (general public)have if we can be bothered.For example in the case quoted in this thread if enough people said they wanted the rule in question removed and the officer re-instated then the police would have no alternative but to abide by the publics choice

the public get that chance at every election they dont seem to want what you seem to want

the majority would likely like the BNP BANNED but the various governments seem to think its better to know where these people are than let them go underground

on that note i suggest if you really want him reinstated you stand on that platform at the next election and risk your own money on the deposit if you are sure the voting public are behind you on this

i am off to one of the speeding threads

As much as i loathe the bnp and everything it stands for at this moment in time it is a legal political party and as such no one should be dismissed from a job purely because they are members. Now if this officer has a history of dealing with certan sections of the public that is explained by his membership then fair enough. I think we need more detail on this before some of us get up in arms about it we don't have any information on this particular officer or how he did his job. As a base principle though if belonging to the bnp is a criteria for dismissal then surely that does have to extend to all political party's not just the ones we loathe.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by martyh

so does that include officers who are a member of the conservatives,labour and libdems if not then it is prejudice

When you join the Police it is made *very* clear that you are not allowed to take any active role in *any* Political party.

[papa smurf]

what the bnp have to say
http://bnp.org.uk/2009/03/police-wel...tish-patriots/

[Peter_]

He was a serving Police Officer who signed a declaration of non membership and was found out and therefore rightly dismissed by virtue ofhis Gross Misconduct.

We do not want serving Police officers to be members of such organisations as the BNP.

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Moldova

He was a serving Police Officer who signed a declaration of non membership and was found out and therefore rightly dismissed by virtue ofhis Gross Misconduct.

We do not want serving Police officers to be members of such organisations as the BNP.

Well put, certain jobs require certain sacrifices and in the case of the police that means not being affiliated to extreme political parties, or as Derek has pointed out not being politically active for any party.

[punky]

I think its wrong that the police service target people's beliefs and not their actions. Its actions that ultimately count. For example, i'd rather have a copper who actively supports a political party, but discharges his duty faithfully and exemplary, rather than the SO19 copper who wasn't part of any political party but refused to guard the Israeli embassy. I can't find any mention of Bettley's disciplinary record which presumably means its excellent as if there were any dirt on it, someone would have pointed it out.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by punky

I think its wrong that the police service target people's beliefs and not their actions. Its actions that ultimately count. For example, i'd rather have a copper who actively supports a political party, but discharges his duty faithfully and exemplary, rather than the SO19 copper who wasn't part of any political party but refused to guard the Israeli embassy. I can't find any mention of Bettley's disciplinary record which presumably means its excellent as if there were any dirt on it, someone would have pointed it out.

There's this:-

'In determining their findings, the panel confirmed there was no evidence that PC Bettley had ever displayed any racist views or discriminatory behaviour in the workplace.

'The panel have also heard character evidence, including evidence from officers from minority backgrounds, and have accepted that PC Bettley has always acted professionally and has never demonstrated any racist behaviour.

'Throughout this process the force has consulted with the Black Police Association and the Independent Advisory Group.'

So you have to get their permission to be a police officer?

He said he was enrolled in the party by a family member without his knowledge and he planned to appeal against the dismissal.

There have been a great many cases where people have been signed up to Labour party membership without their knowledge and votes mysteriously cast in their 'name' in the selection of MPs. If belonging to a political party of any sort is banned, how many others have been banned.

Ex-Commander Brian Paddick stood as the Lib-Dem candidate for London Mayor, how long was he a police officer and a member of the Lib-Dems?

[Derek]

Whilst his sacking was expected I am a little unsure of the legalities of the Police using information obtained illegally against someone.

It does seem that it'll end up in the courts one way or another.