Pope tells Africa 'condoms wrong' - Page 3

**Hugh** · 19-03-2009, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

It's strange that other species are intelligent enough to focus their efforts on ensuring the survival of their existing offspring rather then having loads more of them. The species that have the most offspring tend to be the ones that aren't bothered how many survive and don't take much care of them. Even an amoeba has the 'intelligence' to stop reproducing when times are hard.

If a high death rate is the reason for large families, then surely any new child would be to replace one that died which would mean that although there may be a large number of births the total children alive at any point in time is not large.

Condoms are far from 100% effective against pregnancy, which when you factor in other reasons why a pregnancy may not occur(eg wrong time of fertility cycle) they will be even less effective against HIV. Then there are the times when regular condom users forget, are unwilling, or are unable(eg drunk) to use them.

There was a study that a while back recently found that a third(yes that many) of homosexual men who knew that they carried HIV continued to have unprotected sex. So education and knowledge of condoms doesn't even come close to solving anything.

BBC News Website

Ah, the old "if it's not 100% effective, why bother" argument.

I look at it a different way - 2/3rds of gay men with HIV use condoms, therefore reducing greatly the likelyhood of infection, and use of condoms in Africa (and elsewhere) reduce the rate of infection - every bit helps (imho).

etccarmageddon · 19-03-2009, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Nikon

This could be the REAL reason the pope is trying to undermine the fight against aids...

frankly I think after reading about his condom thoughts he is the sith.

Lord Nikon · 19-03-2009, 11:02

Well, he IS a former Hitler Youth, member of the National Socialist army,member of the Luftwaffe... all good qualities for the leader of the catholic church.

danielf · 19-03-2009, 11:11

Quote:

If a high death rate is the reason for large families, then surely any new child would be to replace one that died which would mean that although there may be a large number of births the total children alive at any point in time is not large.

Erm, no. People are dependent on their children to take care of them when they are old. Since you don't know who and how many will survive, the safe option is to have many children, which results in a net population growth. How many children would you have if you were dependent on them and you knew the chances of them living to adulthood are slim?

I posted this earlier in another thread:

Infant mortality by country

In the top ten of that list, one in five children do not live to the age of 5. By comparison, the figure for the UK is 6 in every 1000. And that's just the stats on infant mortality. Couple that with the fact that many/most people in these countries live on less than 1 US dollar per day, and you can start to imagine just how big the drama is. High birth and death rates are an enormous financial strain for the people involved.

19-03-2009, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucy7

Rabbit like existance???

What an inflammatory choice of words!

Lack of education and finance and general leadership, and yes at times lack of moral standards maybe, but come on now.....

well they do not need to go to school to see that screwing around is spreading aids its their in front of them

CHiLL · 19-03-2009, 16:53

Handing out condoms is not the way to go to fight against HIV/AIDS? What other ways are there? Other than research into a cure? Currently, what other way is there to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS? Stop everyone from having sex?

nomadking · 19-03-2009, 17:04

Seeing as having a cure hasn't stopped Syphilis and Gonorrhoea, how will having one for HIV stop that. Indeed there have been reports that existing drugs for HIV have promoted a more reckless behaviour. It's the reckless behaviour that needs to be addressed, if not another disease will just come along in addition to HIV. That's if HIV doesn't just simply mutate to a form that is more difficult to detect/treat.

lucy7 · 19-03-2009, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHiLL

Handing out condoms is not the way to go to fight against HIV/AIDS? What other ways are there? Other than research into a cure? Currently, what other way is there to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS? Stop everyone from having sex?

Yes, in the Popes case!

He is avocating no sex before marriage, and then monogamy within the marriage.
I think that is great actually, but not realistic in the world we live in today.

Condoms are a fight against spreading aids in Africa and all countries infact.

An interesting fact is that George Bush sent money over to Africa to help the cause, his cause was to preech about abstinence! The money would of been better spent supplying condoms!

Also the Pope is having his speech "softened " now after all the controversy his comments have made!

danielf · 19-03-2009, 18:04

Ratzinger and controversy? Who'd have thunked it!

idi banashapan · 19-03-2009, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

Ok this is not going to be liked but why do we keep on insisting on helping these people? we constantly see adverts asking for money save a staving child etc. They breed like rabbits its not the rest of the worlds fault. If science is to be believed a very large part of Africa will be uninhabitable by the end of this century all these Africans will be migrating north and south then in the millions the more you keep alive the bigger problem it will be. If they are 3rd world and not trying to help themselves leave them to the mess

couldn't agree more

TheDaddy · 20-03-2009, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucy7

Yes, in the Popes case!

He is avocating no sex before marriage, and then monogamy within the marriage.
I think that is great actually, but not realistic in the world we live in today.

Condoms are a fight against spreading aids in Africa and all countries infact.

An interesting fact is that George Bush sent money over to Africa to help the cause, his cause was to preech about abstinence! The money would of been better spent supplying condoms!

Also the Pope is having his speech "softened " now after all the controversy his comments have made!

I have often wondered why the Pope's views about not using condoms are lapped up seemingly by all Africans but his views about monogamy in marriage ignored, makes me wonder in fact if the churches stance has had much to do with the problem at all.

mischievious · 20-03-2009, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I have often wondered why the Pope's views about not using condoms are lapped up seemingly by all Africans but his views about monogamy in marriage ignored, makes me wonder in fact if the churches stance has had much to do with the problem at all.

People will often find evidence to support the right of how they choose to live.... it is obviously a pick n mix fest that you were not invited

frogstamper · 20-03-2009, 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucy7

Rabbit like existance???

What an inflammatory choice of words!

Lack of education and finance and general leadership, and yes at times lack of moral standards maybe, but come on now.....

I couldn't agree more, to me it shows a lack of knowledge concerning Africa's problems coupled with a lack of humanity.
As Chris said, thankfully these views are not prevalent everywhere as Â£57 million was raised for Comic relief, its easy having all the answers in the relative luxury we live in, I imagine things look a little different on a dollar a day not knowing if each day is going to be your last.
As regards the Pope, is anyone really surprised by his gormless comments on condoms?

Lord Nikon · 20-03-2009, 03:48

There HAS to be a possible joke here, No WAY can we have the pope, condoms, africa, polygamy and red nose day in one thread without there being a possible joke.

but anyway, to return to topic. The pope was a bad choice, pappa ratzi was never going to support JPII's reforms, since being in power he has kicked the papal observatory out of a place they have used for many many years, and will possibly reinstigate a version of the inquisition, and probably the castrati choir while preaching that living is against the word of god and that we should return to the dark ages while supporting mother church with all our worldly posessions.

"Take communion my son, then your turn to the dark side will be complete"