Plans for minimum alcohol price

[Derek]

Originally Posted by richard1960

Can see this being a minefield actually,would this new tax apply equally to pubs/clubs if not i could seeing the supermarkets going to court their prices would go up by government dik-tat but not pubs /clubs.

I think its fairly easy. Have one level of duty for alcohol sold to be consumed on the premises and another (higher) level for alcohol sold to be consumed elsewhere.

Easy to enforce as most of the binge drinkers don't tend to buy in kegs of premium lager or bottles of wine.

If it becomes more appealing financially to drink in pubs/clubs they would benefit rather than the current climate of a few hours drinking in the house, a taxi to the club when already hammered and a taxi back for more drink and probably a fight.

Initially when this idea was floated in Scotland I was sceptical but the more I hear and the more I think about it I think its one of the few good ideas the Government has had recently.

[Stuart]

I have to admit, I don't know if raising prices alone will work. It hasn't with Smoking.

What I think the Government need to do is cut the amount of shops licenced to sell alcohol and ban all these Buy One Get One Free type deals.

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

What I think the Government need to do is cut the amount of shops licenced to sell alcohol and ban all these Buy One Get One Free type deals.

And put me out of a job (ok its my 2nd job - but needs must!).

We don't actually sell any 'kiddie' type drinks in the off licence I work in, but i do notice the alcoholics that come in always buy cider cos its so cheap. But if prices rise isn't it just going to go underground like fags did

Originally Posted by Derek S

I think its fairly easy. Have one level of duty for alcohol sold to be consumed on the premises and another (higher) level for alcohol sold to be consumed elsewhere.

Easy to enforce as most of the binge drinkers don't tend to buy in kegs of premium lager or bottles of wine.

If it becomes more appealing financially to drink in pubs/clubs they would benefit rather than the current climate of a few hours drinking in the house, a taxi to the club when already hammered and a taxi back for more drink and probably a fight.

Initially when this idea was floated in Scotland I was sceptical but the more I hear and the more I think about it I think its one of the few good ideas the Government has had recently.

You say that about two tier taxes,but in my town we have three nightclubs presumably the two tier tax would not cover them,well they do 2 for 1 offers and cheap booze most nights in these clubs ,the teenagers and youngsters come out of them,and sorry to be so graphic at lunchtime,are sick over the pavement and urinate in the street and fight clearly they had bought the booze not in supermarkets but inside the clubs(our town centre has a alcohol ban in place which is enforced so no street drinking) ,they also use the local pubs to get tanked up in before the nightclubs open,why is it fair that me an adult of nearly 50 should be penalised for buying a few cans in a supermarket and anybody drinking in pubs clubs does not have to pay it highly unfair.


I hope the supermarkets do not let down thousands of responsible drinkers like myself down ,on the wim of a government policy and fight this in court as unfair competiton,clearly weather two tier or not any tax that makes one establishment charge more for its product then another is unfair.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by richard1960

clearly they had bought the booze not in supermarkets they also use the local pubs to get tanked up in before the nightclubs open,

The majority of young people get tanked up before they go into pubs/clubs in my experience, making off-licence booze more expensive would get them into pubs sooner rather than trying to cram all their drinking into a short space of time. Coupled with more effective enforcement of licensing laws (It's an offence to serve alcohol to drunk people in Scotland, I'd imagine England/Wales has a similar law) I think its the most effective way of dealing with the problem.

Originally Posted by richard1960

why is it fair that me an adult of nearly 50 should be penalised for buying a few cans in a supermarket and anybody drinking in pubs clubs does not have to pay it highly unfair.

Its not overly penalising the person who wants to have a few quiet drinks in the house (at least the Scottish plans aren't, I haven't read the full proposals for England yet).
Its targetting the people who go out and get the cheapest drink possible, get off their faces on it and repeat that cycle day-in, day-out.
Under the proposals the minimum price for some drinks would be less than they are sold for already.

But Derek how about moderate drinking folk like me going out for a quiet drink being penalised...Why should those who don't ever get drunk be made to pay higher prices..

I think that it might be time to stock up on home brewing kits...

Originally Posted by Derek S

The majority of young people get tanked up before they go into pubs/clubs in my experience, making off-licence booze more expensive would get them into pubs sooner rather than trying to cram all their drinking into a short space of time. Coupled with more effective enforcement of licensing laws (It's an offence to serve alcohol to drunk people in Scotland, I'd imagine England/Wales has a similar law) I think its the most effective way of dealing with the problem.




Its not overly penalising the person who wants to have a few quiet drinks in the house (at least the Scottish plans aren't, I haven't read the full proposals for England yet).
Its targetting the people who go out and get the cheapest drink possible, get off their faces on it and repeat that cycle day-in, day-out.
Under the proposals the minimum price for some drinks would be less than they are sold for already.

How is it not if alcohol were sold in english supermarkets as per the proposals,a bottle of bacardi would go up from around £11 to £19 roughly how is that not penalisng the responsible drinker, also the stronger lagers are say £4 at present in supermarkets they would also go up under the 50 per unit proposals (ie 4 cans 2.5 units each ten units £5) ,all of which would have the effect of responsible drinkers paying more something which imo,is very unfair.

Which drinks would be cheaper then they are now then alcohol free lager!


Also young people do fill our pubs at the weeknd here in essex the town centre pubs have bouncers on the doors to stop trouble and sell cheap booze to get people in ,under the present proposals this would still continue,no doubt people do drink as welll before coming out however it is wrong to demonise supermarkets for this or off licences for that matter. Any increase in supermarkets may well have the effect of putting responsible drinkers off though,thereby putting jobs in the brewing industry at risk hopefully they and the supermarkets can see this excercise in nannying off.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

But Derek how about moderate drinking folk like me going out for a quiet drink being penalised...Why should those who don't ever get drunk be made to pay higher prices..

Going out for a quiet drink would remain almost the same price unless you tend to go for the 'women only, all you can drink for a tenner' type of places (which I doubt )

Moderate drinkers would see a marginal increase, you need to get into serious quantities of booze before you see a big difference.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:31 ----------

Originally Posted by richard1960

a bottle of bacardi would go up from around £11 to £19 roughly how is that not penalisng the responsible drinker

At the current proposed levels a bottle of frosty jack would go from £2.99 to £11.25 which is the type of drink they are looking at.

Obviously the plan needs to be discussed but I think there are definite benefits to it.

Ah, politicians solving problems at their best, their solution: Put up prices.

I agree there is a binge problem and something needs to be done to tackle the issue but it's like with road congestion, politicians came up with the Congestion Charge.

Put up the rates on alcohol substantially and we will see more muggings, petty crime as teenagers take to voilence to be able to afford that new expensive drink. I just don't think raising prices is a solution because then people who only moderately drink are being penalised. Not only that but kids will get the extra money needed from somewhere else, it won't IMO solve a problem.

Originally Posted by Derek S

Going out for a quiet drink would remain almost the same price unless you tend to go for the 'women only, all you can drink for a tenner' type of places (which I doubt )

Moderate drinkers would see a marginal increase, you need to get into serious quantities of booze before you see a big difference.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:31 ----------



At the current proposed levels a bottle of frosty jack would go from £2.99 to £11.25 which is the type of drink they are looking at.

Obviously the plan needs to be discussed but I think there are definite benefits to it.

Showing my ignorance here LOL but what is frosty jack! could be my age though it must have a very high alcohol content indeed.


But the all you can drink for a tenner pubs would also be stopped i take it,as obviously they are cheaper then the supermarkets if you drank enough.Hic Hic.

But as a moderate drinker still do not see why i should pay anymore then now and i vote too.!!!! If it was just kiddie type drinks ie alcopops and the like i could live with it though.

What is it these days with trying to solve all problems with tax if they really want to sort out the problem with alcohol then just go back to the old way of not getting served if your drunk. Many is the time i have been in pubs with friends and seen people who could barely stand getting served and continuing to be served until they get rowdy. Yes there is a problem with alcohol and a certain group in our country but hitting everyone is not the way to solve it.

I say this as someone who doesn't drink and i would also like to stop getting ripped off for soft drinks . Most people are perfectly able to go for a grown up drink in social surroundings and not leave the pub looking for trouble so stop hitting those and take the time and put in the effort to go after the pains in the backside.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by richard1960

Showing my ignorance here LOL but what is frosty jack! could be my age though it must have a very high alcohol content indeed.

It's the drink of choice in the area I work in. Cheap 'cider' in a 3 litre bottle.

It tends to be on sale at £2.99 a bottle with a 7.5 ABV and tastes absolutely foul.

The other solution - get rid of 24 hour opening hours, it really is laughable when they raise concerns about there being a binge drinking problem with the younger generation, yet 24 hour opening hours was introduced not that long ago ...

It is Double standards. Just like the government forcing the issue of a more Greener environment and then go champion plans to for a new runway at one the UK's main airports.

Surely just because you dont like taste of it why tax it higher i dont like sherry or wine but i dont go shouting for it too be banned , i bet theres far more wine pss heads than cheap cider drinkers but because wine is drunk more indoors among hauty tauty people it cant be wrong , if i was upto me i dont know what i'd do

Originally Posted by Derek S

It's the drink of choice in the area I work in. Cheap 'cider' in a 3 litre bottle.

It tends to be on sale at £2.99 a bottle with a 7.5 ABV and tastes absolutely foul.

Sounds disgusting there is a cider here called white lightning sounds the equivellent cheap and about 7.5 strength.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:57 ----------

Originally Posted by bjorkiii

Surely just because you dont like taste of it why tax it higher i dont like sherry or wine but i dont go shouting for it too be banned , i bet theres far more wine pss heads than cheap cider drinkers but because wine is drunk more indoors among hauty tauty people it cant be wrong , if i was upto me i dont know what i'd do

One solution may be the continental way of doing things,in their teens in france for instance a glass of wine is served with a meal therefore when they get older the youngsters are used to having a drink and its not hey were now 18 lets go and get sh-tfaced, on the continent this problem with binge drinking youngsters is hardly seen so they must be doing something right.