Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

Mike_A · 10-03-2009, 18:51

Just spent some time reviewing posts - what an excellent forum!

Just to let people know that I have taken legal action against Virgin Media in the Scottish courts.

A long term customer with Telewest, my troubles began once VM took them over. After careful scrutiny, unilateral restriction of services is not allowed in my contract with VM. They cannot "throttle", "restrict" or "manage" my bandwidth at any time, for any reason, unless they show just cause, i.e. that they have notified me that I have done something wrong and shown why. It is the same for everyone.

As a developer of Internet services, with technically capable professional friends providing feedback about anything I am unsure of (very little), I have no doubt about my claim. Nor do Virgin Media, for they have admitted their practices. In spite of that, and receiving writs during last autumn, and although having internal and external legal professionals working for them, they had failed to lodge defences when the case first called on 4th March. The court gave them three weeks to provide me with defences.

The outcome of this case may have significant impact on reimbursement by Virgin Media for services contracted but not received.

I shall report progress. Meantime, I am interested in hearing from anyone who has taken logs of their service, and the times they experienced throttling.

There's obviously a lot of dissatisfaction about throttling. Curiously, no person has taken action in court before now. Perhaps this case will equalise the contractual relationship between VM and their customers. It's good for VM too, for with BT about to compete on even terms with their own cable network taking the "bully" out of the bullies will gain them a better client base.

BenMcr · 10-03-2009, 18:54

Telewest's terms and conditions were replaced with Virgin's terms and conditions in Feb 2007

Those terms do allow for management of services

Section B4i

We reserve the right to monitor and control data volume and/or types of traffic transmitted via the interactive services on your Virgin TV and/or Internet access. In the event that you exceed any usage allowance applicable to your Internet access or your use does not comply with the 'acceptable use policy' which you can read on the Virgin Media website, we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to reduce, suspend or terminate your Internet access. During any time of reduction or suspension, you will remain liable for the payment of your original level of Internet access charge. We also reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to re-grade your Internet access to a different speed and/or usage allowance at the appropriate charge. If we make such changes we will notify you as soon as possible.

Sirius · 10-03-2009, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Telewest's terms and conditions were replaced with Virgin's terms and conditions in Feb 2007

Those terms do allow for management of services

Section B4i

We reserve the right to monitor and control data volume and/or types of traffic transmitted via the interactive services on your Virgin TV and/or Internet access. In the event that you exceed any usage allowance applicable to your Internet access or your use does not comply with the 'acceptable use policy' which you can read on the Virgin Media website, we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to reduce, suspend or terminate your Internet access. During any time of reduction or suspension, you will remain liable for the payment of your original level of Internet access charge. We also reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to re-grade your Internet access to a different speed and/or usage allowance at the appropriate charge. If we make such changes we will notify you as soon as possible.

However if Virgin are that arrogant that they don't turn up in court to defend themselves then who knows what can happen. If they don't turn up then they deserve anything that the judge throws at them.

Mike_A · 10-03-2009, 19:02

Ben...

No, they cannot do that. Once made, a contract is fixed in law unless both parties agree otherwise.

In any event, even with the terms you kindly set out, Virgin Media would have to show "just cause". In other words, they would require to account for their action, just like they need to account for telephone calls. They do not supply bandwidth/line speed accounting.

Put another way, if you were sold an expensive sports car capable of doing 200 miles per hour and it was throttled (pun intended) to 10% (20mph), you would rightfully be more than angry.

Sirius...

They lodged a notice of appearance a few minutes before their time was up. The court was very lenient in granting extra time.

Toto · 10-03-2009, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_A

Ben...

No, they cannot do that. Once made, a contract is fixed in law unless both parties agree otherwise.

In any event, even with the terms you kindly set out, Virgin Media would have to show "just cause". In other words, they would require to account for their action, just like they need to account for telephone calls. They do not supply bandwidth/line speed accounting.

Put another way, if you were sold an expensive sports car capable of doing 200 miles per hour and it was throttled (pun intended) to 10% (20mph), you would rightfully be more than angry.

Sirius...

They lodged a notice of appearance a few minutes before their time was up. The court was very lenient in granting extra time.

This could go on and on......good luck.

What are the odds that the judgement will be in favour of VM, and we never get to hear about it?

leexgx · 10-03-2009, 19:12

you want cable to do monthy download caps (over my dead body) like bt or other ISPs do that is very Bad idea i can download more in 1 day then what i can in 1 month on cable even with the throttling in place

quite sure thay have in there terms about throttling or something close to it

Toto · 10-03-2009, 19:18

Hell, where's popper these days, I'm sure he'd have some words of encouragement for the O/P

Turkey Machine · 10-03-2009, 19:24

About time somebody took it to them. VM are the only UK broadband provider, I believe, actively throttling connections daily after a certain download limit. While others have a FUP and an acceptable monthly download limit on ADSL, Virgin don't, but they throttle those deemed "heavy" (they say the top 5% of users, I would reckon it's about 25% of the customer base). So all power to the OP for taking them to court, especially since according to him they changed the terms of the contract.

Peter_ · 10-03-2009, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turkey Machine

About time somebody took it to them. VM are the only UK broadband provider, I believe, actively throttling connections daily after a certain download limit. While others have a FUP and an acceptable monthly download limit on ADSL, Virgin don't, but they throttle those deemed "heavy" (they say the top 5% of users, I would reckon it's about 25% of the customer base). So all power to the OP for taking them to court, especially since according to him they changed the terms of the contract.

How can you pick a figure out of the air like 25% without any proof that is pure guesswork and conjecture.

Toto · 10-03-2009, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova

How can you pick a figure out of the air like 25% without any proof that is pure guesswork and conjecture.

Probably related to another poster who has a penchant for staggering, and unproven stats.

Turkey Machine · 10-03-2009, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova

How can you pick a figure out of the air like 25% without any proof that is pure guesswork and conjecture.

Exactly, but with so few VM customers registered to Cable Forum and so few who know how to use newsgroups, of course it's conjecture, but anything up to that figure is likely the real number because they sell a LOT of 10 and 20Mbit contracts! EDIT: It's even more likely since they actively withdrew selling 2Mbit as a service.

Easy Toto, I'm not dual-accounts here y'know.

Toto · 10-03-2009, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turkey Machine

About time somebody took it to them. VM are the only UK broadband provider, I believe, actively throttling connections daily after a certain download limit. While others have a FUP and an acceptable monthly download limit on ADSL, Virgin don't, but they throttle those deemed "heavy" (they say the top 5% of users, I would reckon it's about 25% of the customer base). So all power to the OP for taking them to court, especially since according to him they changed the terms of the contract.

Hmmmm, wonder if I can take my credit card company to court for doing the same, with their ever fluctuating interest rates.............

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turkey Machine

Exactly, but with so few VM customers registered to Cable Forum and so few who know how to use newsgroups, of course it's conjecture, but anything up to that figure is likely the real number because they sell a LOT of 10 and 20Mbit contracts! EDIT: It's even more likely since they actively withdrew selling 2Mbit as a service.

Easy Toto, I'm not dual-accounts here y'know.

Hahah, well, thought it was worth a sly one on't side

Peter_ · 10-03-2009, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turkey Machine

Exactly, but with so few VM customers registered to Cable Forum and so few who know how to use newsgroups, of course it's conjecture, but anything up to that figure is likely the real number because they sell a LOT of 10 and 20Mbit contracts! EDIT: It's even more likely since they actively withdrew selling 2Mbit as a service.

Easy Toto, I'm not dual-accounts here y'know.

If I answer the phone and you ask are you being traffic managed I can tell you in a couple of minutes and I can count on one hand how many times a week I get asked that question and most weeks it only includes my thumb.

Turkey Machine · 10-03-2009, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova

If I answer the phone and you ask are you being traffic managed I can tell you in a couple of minutes and I can count on one hand how many times a week I get asked that question and most weeks it only includes my thumb.

Because not all customers ring up asking if they're being throttled.

It's a random figure, because the 5% that Virgin Media use in advertising is quite frankly a load of cow's excrement. I know that 5% of 8 million customers is a lot (400k), but it's likely to be more, especially with the new advertising push for 50Mbit, which we know will be throttled when it's rolled out nationwide.

EDIT: are you whydoineedatech in disguise?

Ignitionnet · 10-03-2009, 19:43

Yep most people know so little about their 'fibre optic broadband' they don't even notice when they are STM'd.