teacher shut autistic girl a tiny room

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Osem

I've already told you that!! That's where the experience with the child and caring comes into the equation. What sort of caring response is shutting a distressed child in a room?

The National Autistic Society suggest time out and quiet room and that is what happened.
As I pointed out, her parents may not have been able to deal with that situation, so how is a teaching assistant supposed to.

There is nothing on the NAS teacher guidance page about not putting someone in a room. From the info it seems the teaching assistant may have tried things that may have worked, but nothing on the page says that it wouldn't have worked no matter what the circumstances and shouldn't even be tried and yet she is being hounded for it.

Originally Posted by nomadking

The National Autistic Society suggest time out and quiet room and that is what happened.

Yet earlier you were quick to point out that NAS say what works for one child may not work for another. How much ducking and weaving are you going to do before you simply accept you're arguing for the sake of arguing without actually having a clue what you're talking about?

As I pointed out, her parents may not have been able to deal with that situation, so how is a teaching assistant supposed to.

Total and utter cack. Her parents will be perfectly well able to deal with the situation, because she is seven years old and she is their daughter, whom they know very well. If you're going to 'point out' such things, you need specific evidence. And you don't have any.

The teaching assistant, while she may not have seven years' experience, still has plenty - at least several months' - and should at the very least been aware of her own shortcomings and able to show some evidence that she had communicated them to the school in order to get appropriate training.

There is nothing on the NAS teacher guidance page about not putting someone in a room. From the info it seems the teaching assistant may have tried things that may have worked, but nothing on the page says that it wouldn't have worked no matter what the circumstances and shouldn't even be tried and yet she is being hounded for it.

She is not being 'hounded'. She has appeared before a formal tribunal and a *judge* has criticised what happened. This is the aspect you seem most keen to ignore. She isn't simply being persecuted here.

[nomadking]

There was no single correct response(even according to experts), yet everybody seems to say the the teaching assistant should have had one.

Her strategy may have worked at the time, it didn't, not even the experts could have predicted that with anything near 100% certainty, so why is she being held to a higher(and impossible) standard.

Since when has a room 16ft by 7ft been classed as tiny ??

My daughter would kill for a bedroom that "tiny".

Originally Posted by nomadking

There was no single correct response(even according to experts), yet everybody seems to say the the teaching assistant should have had one.

Her strategy may have worked at the time, it didn't, not even the experts could have predicted that with anything near 100% certainty, so why is she being held to a higher(and impossible) standard.

There is no single correct response for all autistic children. There is a correct response for an individual autistic child. The school has been failing this child because appropriately trained staff would have been in a position to work out a strategy for her.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

There is no single correct response for all autistic children. There is a correct response for an individual autistic child. The school has been failing this child because appropriately trained staff would have been in a position to work out a strategy for her.

It seems even for an individual autistic child there is no single strategy that works.

NAS website:-

A strategy that has worked with one child in a particular situation may not work with another child or, for that matter, even with the same child in a different situation!

Originally Posted by nomadking

It seems even for an individual autistic child there is no single strategy that works.

NAS website:-

Are you wilfully misunderstanding this stuff?

Different child, same situation ... approach may not work
Same child, different situation ... approach may not work
Same child, same situation ...

Go on, fill in the blanks.

Even if all the above is true, the keyword here is may not work. There is nothing to suggest that this girl's case is so difficult that consistent approaches could not be developed for her. The fact that the *judge* - a character you have seen fit to all but ignore so far - criticised the school shows that the school was doing less than it should have in this regard.

Originally Posted by Russ B

Have someone trained in specialised care for autistic children to hand, perhaps?

---------- Post added at 16:03 ---------- Previous post was at 16:00 ----------

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

If schools have children with special needs then they should have staff trained in looking after children with special needs seems simple to me. Then if anything like this happens the child can be removed from the lesson and to the trained staff or if possible the trained staff can come to them. I see no reason why all staff can not be given some training after all they have plenty of teacher training days it seems rediculas to me that they do not cover this

nail,head,hit.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

Are you wilfully misunderstanding this stuff?

Different child, same situation ... approach may not work
Same child, different situation ... approach may not work
Same child, same situation ...

Go on, fill in the blanks.

Even if all the above is true, the keyword here is may not work. There is nothing to suggest that this girl's case is so difficult that consistent approaches could not be developed for her. The fact that the *judge* - a character you have seen fit to all but ignore so far - criticised the school shows that the school was doing less than it should have in this regard.

So to identify the correct strategy would mean the identifying the situation(which may not have arisen before). As the cause of the upset would not have been easily identified(ie thinking that she would be in trouble for not doing her homework), how could anyone have been sure what to do in that unidentified situation.

Look at the Autistic Society webpage. What does it say she should have done that she didn't in fact do, apart from trying to get an explanation from the girl, which she may have tried to do but failed because the child is autistic.

Children with an ASD may have difficulty explaining their needs or answering a verbal question. If the words or question structure is changed, the child might have difficulty in answering, despite knowing the answer.

Originally Posted by nomadking

So to identify the correct strategy would mean the identifying the situation(which may not have arisen before). As the cause of the upset would not have been easily identified(ie thinking that she would be in trouble for not doing her homework), how could anyone have been sure what to do in that unidentified situation.

Look at the Autistic Society webpage. What does it say she should have done that she didn't in fact do, apart from trying to get an explanation from the girl, which she may have tried to do but failed because the child is autistic.

Let me ask you a question instead. Why has the judge criticised the school's approach to managing this girl?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

Let me ask you a question instead. Why has the judge criticised the school's approach to managing this girl?

The function of the special educational needs and disability(and others) tribunal is to criticise without facts getting in the way.

Did he(or anybody else for that matter) actually point out the correct approach? Until they do, they cannot criticise the approach taken.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Did he(or anybody else for that matter) actually point out the correct approach?

Answer the question, please. Why has the judge criticised the school's approach to managing this girl?

Inclusion is a good thing sometimes.Like the Downs syndrome child we had in school.I don't think he got as much out of the process as he had to leave in year 10 but I know that those who did gain from the experience were his classmates who learned to respect others who were different and perhaps needed other considerations in the classroom.

They have gone out into the wider world and hopefully will have the patience to deal with others whom are physically or mentally challenged..and be better people for it.

However inclusion WILL not work for all and to place a vulnerable autistic child in a place where there are no properly qualified staff with even the smallest glimmering of understanding is a supreme failure on everyone's part who decides that in such a case.

I think the parents should be suing the local authorities as well for not providing enough services for autistic children.

After all there are very few schools for them and this one is about to close.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/7930346.stm

Even Parliament failed to give full support to an autism bill last month watering down what was originally proposed.

So yes this woman did a terrible thing BUT she was hardly given the training or the full support to be able to deal with the child..and I'd like to remind people that LSAs get very little respect,support or pay for what they do do.Some of them are excellent and help a good many children to raise and keep up their literacy and numeracy skills and provide support for harassed teaching staff having to deal with severe behavioural problems.

There are degrees of autism and some can function fairly well provided they are in a caring environment and with staff who have been trained.

I'm wondering just how much support was promised by the school to her parents and how much it amounted to in reality.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Did he(or anybody else for that matter) actually point out the correct approach? Until they do, they cannot criticise the approach taken.

... which is a basic logical fallacy. Nil points, no cigar. I can't see much point in continuing this.

At least the girl and her parents got satisfaction from the process and can look forward to some improvements.

Originally Posted by Chris

... which is a basic logical fallacy. Nil points, no cigar. I can't see much point in continuing this.

At least the girl and her parents got satisfaction from the process and can look forward to some improvements.

Which will be underfunded and at a very basic level...