teacher shut autistic girl a tiny room - Page 4

nomadking · 10-03-2009, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

It clearly didn't and the tribunal agreed. You can't argue with facts.

As the saying goes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I was pointing out that the alternative suggestion may or may not of worked and in that case placing her in a room to calm down was as valid idea at that time as any other so far presented.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:21 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Ever heard the expression "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"?

Who is talking about 'potential situations'?

A child with special needs was in the class. She had no idea how to deal with special needs. End of.

But they are a large number(ever increasing) of different defined special needs categories all with various levels and different behaviour. How can someone be expected to be trained to cope in all situations. Especially where there was no obvious trigger for the girl's behaviour.

Is there somewhere an article where the mother says what the teaching assistant should have done? Apart from the girl being taught at home.

joglynne · 10-03-2009, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

As the saying goes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I was pointing out that the alternative suggestion may or may not of worked and in that case placing her in a room to calm down was as valid idea at that time as any other so far presented.

I find it disturbing that you think abandoning an upset child in a room by themselves is an acceptable way of dealing with this situation.

Russ · 10-03-2009, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

But they are a large number(ever increasing) of different defined special needs categories all with various levels and different behaviour. How can someone be expected to trained to cope in all situations. Especially where there was no obvious trigger for the girl's behaviour.

If someone feels they cannot cope with training then you really have to question whether or not they're up to the job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Is there somewhere an article where the mother says what the teaching assistant should have done?

You don't need to be an expert or have any special training to know this course of action was entirely wrong.

I wonder if the assistant have children of her own, in particular autistic children.

Osem · 10-03-2009, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

May have done the trick? Then placing her in a room may have also done the trick.

If it was something obvious that was upsetting her, it would have been easier to resolve the situation. But it wasn't something obvious and probably only became known long after the event.

FGS I told you that the way to deal with each child will be different! That wasn't simple enough for you so I gave you a suggestion. Shutting her in the room DIDN'T work did IT and in my experience would and should never be tried in such circumstances. Since they were responsible for her they should have known what works for her and most of all what doesn't! That's the sort of dialogue the school/staff member should have had with the parents and the educational psychologists who deemed that her placement was appropriate.

nomadking · 10-03-2009, 13:39

Lots of people have said what happened was wrong but nobody(not even her mother as far as I can see) has said what would have 100% worked in that situation.

10-03-2009, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Lots of people have said what happened was wrong but nobody(not even her mother as far as I can see) has said what would have 100% worked in that situation.

change the record I do not see you coming up with any ideas and to be honest you are clueless on this subject

Osem · 10-03-2009, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Lots of people have said what happened was wrong but nobody(not even her mother as far as I can see) has said what would have 100% worked in that situation.

I have first hand experience of several special schools and special infant units which successfully managed all sorts of children and behaviour WITHOUT shutting them in rooms all on their own. By the very fact that this girl is in a mainstream school her autism must be relatively mild therefore I can see no reason why the action they took was ever considered to be an appropriate response.

nomadking · 10-03-2009, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

change the record I do not see you coming up with any ideas and to be honest you are clueless on this subject

But then again I don't claim to have any ideas on how to have dealt with the situation or else I would have given them.

10-03-2009, 13:48

then why are you participating you are simply trying to stir up trouble

Do you have kids?

Osem · 10-03-2009, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

But then again I don't claim to have any ideas on how to have dealt with the situation or else I would have given them.

and that's why you're not an SEN teacher/assistant. She on the other hand was supposed to be and should've have had some idea of what to do short of shutting the child in a room!

nomadking · 10-03-2009, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

then why are you participating you are simply trying to stir up trouble

Do you have kids?

I feel that the teaching assistant is being unfairly criticised with no 100% working alternative solution being provided by people as to what they themselves would/should have done.

---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

and that's why you're not an SEN teacher/assistant. She on the other hand was supposed to be and should've have had some idea of what to do short of shutting the child in a room!

So to train to become a SEN teacher/assistant in the first place you have to already have all the knowledge before you train? New concept in training I presume, only learning what you already know.

No, she wasn't supposed to know as it's not an SEN school.

Osem · 10-03-2009, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

I feel that the teaching assistant is being unfairly criticised with no 100% working alternative solution being provided by people as to what they themselves would/should have done.

---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

No, she wasn't supposed to know as it's not an SEN school.

I know that - but the child must have had an SEN statement or assessment in order to get extra help in the form of that staff member. The purpose of that would be to set out her needs and difficulties for the school/staff member then to properly address.

You keep banging on about a 100% working alternative but there isn't one. There can only be an approach which ensures that a distressed child in such circumstances is treated sensitively and appropriately. Shutting her in a room was neither and as I've said (more than once now) has never been considered a proper approach in any SEN setting I've been in. It really doesn't require much in the way of special training to know that!

Saaf_laandon_mo · 10-03-2009, 14:03

I personally do not think that you need special training to realise that putting a distressed child in a tiny room alone (one which she can't get out from )is only going to make the child more distressed. It's a bit like me putting my4 year old in the cupboard under the stairs or in the garden shed if she is being naughty.

10-03-2009, 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

I feel that the teaching assistant is being unfairly criticised with no 100% working alternative solution being provided by people as to what they themselves would/should have done.

---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

So to train to become a SEN teacher/assistant in the first place you have to already have all the knowledge before you train? New concept in training I presume, only learning what you already know.

No, she wasn't supposed to know as it's not an SEN school.

is that a no to having kids? the teaching assistant only has to say sorry its not like she lost her job. If you had kids you would have a better more balanced empathy with this subject. If someone does anything to your child who you have put in a position of trust causes your child this amount of distress you would walk over hot coals to deal with it. I feel that a little bit of training would have totally avoided this situation no distressed child no chastising of staff just a healthy learning enviroment

nomadking · 10-03-2009, 14:23

From The National Autistic Society website.

Quote:

Behaviours and needs of pupils with ASD vary from one child to another, as with any child. A strategy that has worked with one child in a particular situation may not work with another child or, for that matter, even with the same child in a different situation!

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Permit time out if child is becoming over-stimulated.

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It is important to give the child a quiet, distraction-free learning area. Too many pictures, bright colours and noise could be difficult for some children to cope with.

Other than that, no guidance for what the teaching assistant(or anybody else) should do in that situation.

The child was distressed beforehand, any action taken was in order to try and calm the child down(ie time out, quiet room).

If there is no 100% correct answer, why is the teaching assistant supposed to have come up with one herself.