Virgin Media Horror - Please READ - - Page 2

rogerdraig · 06-03-2009, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Sorry to hear about your problems with VM. Firstly I'd say be careful about recording calls, you're allowed to of course as long as you either let the other person know you're doing it or you will not allow any third party to hear it.

Secondly we make it very clear that Cable Forum is not owned or controlled by VM. We are completely independent.

you can record your calls with out any one else permision ( though its polite to ask ) but if you feel you need to do so to back up your position later it is perfectly lawful

( will dig out the law bits from an old thread in a bit )

lol just saw post above me

WHISTLED · 06-03-2009, 09:20

Quote:

My interpretation of that, is that I can quite legally record a conversation with a VM CSR, without telling them, and then later refer VM to that recording as proof that something was said as there is no third party involved. There is just me (the first party) and VM (the second party), however said recording could not be entered as legal evidence in a court action, as the court would be the third party

Quote:

Again, theres no third party involved, its just "me" or the caller, and VM.

The agent works on behalf of VM but the call is with the agent, 3rd party refers to anyone other than you and the person you engage in dialogue with.

joglynne · 06-03-2009, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHISTLED

The agent works on behalf of VM but the call is with the agent, 3rd party refers to anyone other than you and the person you engage in dialogue with.

Our account is under my husbands name but due to his deafness I make all the phone calls to VM on his behalf. If a customer, recording their conversation with a VM representative invokes the 3rd party thingy then presumably VM would be equally restricted in using any recording of my talking with their agent on behalf of my husband?

After all I have been authorized by my husband to act on his behalf in, I presume, the same way the person who speaks on VM's behalf.

LOL my head hurts after writing that.

06-03-2009, 13:39

Hi, Yes I advised the agent the the call is being recorded and he said "I don't care mate"....

Pushkar · 06-03-2009, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_SEO

Hi, Yes I advised the agent the the call is being recorded and he said "I don't care mate"....

Yeah im sure he talked to you like that, I would love the hear your recording but since it would be illegal

Methinks you are not that innocent either.

BenMcr · 06-03-2009, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_SEO

I was on 10 Mbps connection with basic Tv and phone package. So I paid Ã‚Â£27 a month. Since I had a 10 Mbps broadband, I decided to contact Virgin Media and see how much they'd charge for upgrading it to 20 Mbps. I spoke to an Virgin Media advisor, she confirmed that it'd be Ã‚Â£4 extra, that all. So I took it. She did not say anything else at all.

In which case they didn't do their job. Virgin Media company policy is that they have to inform you about the new 12 month contract on the phone.

Quote:

3 days later I got a letter through the poist thanking me for upgrading the service... guess what, at back of the letter, there was a critical part, when it said that since I changed my service, my contract restarted for another 12 months. However I had 7 working days if I changed my mind and things could go back the way they were. (please remember, amendments to contract were listed at back of the letter, this should be on the front page, in big bold writing.... this kind of scam does not work in long term with consumers)

It is not a scam - All new bundles with Virgin restart the contract - and you should not be placed onto it without you being aware that is the case - which again is Virgin Media company policy

Quote:

So i called virgin Media "customer support" and spoke to S, I said, I was not advised that contract would restart for another 12 months and usually when a customer upgrades the service, the length of the contract does not increase, but customer service rep told me that "since you changed to a new package mate, your contract is changed"... that's what he said... i have the called recorded.

To give you the increased broadband speed for Ã‚Â£4 rather than the usual Ã‚Â£12 it is a new bundle price and a new contract.

Quote:

At this point I asked if can just cancel the upgrade and go back to the things they were. guess what he said in response... "mate if you go back to the old package, your contract would still restart for another 12 months and you would not get the old package of Ã‚Â£27 but for Ã‚Â£55 as no discount would be given to you".

That is wrong - you do have 7 days right to cancel and not enter into the new minimum term and Virgin have to find the closest avaliable bundle to put you on - without you starting another new contract

Quote:

Guys, I COULD NOT BELIEVE THIS, this violates the basic regulations and recommendations set by Ofcom. Just because I upgraded my internet, my contract changed and now I'm being forced to take Virgin Media for another 12 months, and even (within 7 days) if I wanted to go back to old package, my contract would still be extended to another 12 months...? what?? This is not fair!!!

Asking you to enter into a new contract term for services is fair - obviously as long as you know about it.

As I said they should find you the closest price to what you were paying and you not enter a new contract

Quote:

Well I have now written a letter to Virgin Media and waiting for response... so will keep you updated... but my advise to everyone is to STAY AWAY from Virgin Media... they are not clear about their terms... making contractual amendments and then writing them on the back of the page is NOT clear! And I am having to spend a lot more than I used to on BT.

Again because you should have been told before the price was changed it was a new term - which again is Virgin Media company policy to tell you on the phone. The letter is backup for that

Quote:

Guys, please share you response honestly...

The agent you spoke to should have told you 100% before you agreed to the new price that it was a 12 month term.

WHISTLED · 06-03-2009, 22:42

Quote:

Our account is under my husbands name but due to his deafness I make all the phone calls to VM on his behalf. If a customer, recording their conversation with a VM representative invokes the 3rd party thingy then presumably VM would be equally restricted in using any recording of my talking with their agent on behalf of my husband?

Well thats why VM have it on the IVR and letters, adverts etc that calls may be recorded, that would mean that call info could be shared as by calling you agree to those terms.

Good to point out though that only outsource call centres record calls

Mad Ad · 06-03-2009, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milambar

This is incorrect (or rather, only partially correct). From the OFTEL FAQ page:

Quote:

Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone?
Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication.

My interpretation of that, is that I can quite legally record a conversation with a VM CSR, without telling them, and then later refer VM to that recording as proof that something was said as there is no third party involved. There is just me (the first party) and VM (the second party), however said recording could not be entered as legal evidence in a court action, as the court would be the third party.

So if we record it, and then post on an internet forum things like "he said "I don't care mate"..." is that making the contents available to a third party or not?

If not, the law is pointless as everyone would just publish the whole conversation.

Quote:

My interpretation seems to be supported by the second item in OTEL's FAQ:

Quote:

Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?
No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording.

Again, theres no third party involved, its just "me" or the caller, and VM.

So is that saying its not about getting their ok to record it, we have to get their consent to publish it after we record it? Would an 'i dont care mate' cover that? Or would the interpretation be that consent to record is consent to publish it at will?

So putting the two together, by not recording it we can paraphrase what was said from memory to an internet forum as much as we like, but if we record it we cant mention parts of the conversation unless we have the persons permission to publish it?

Quote:

Yes, Im aware that an alternative interpretation is that the CSR themselves is the second party and VM is the third party, however, since the CSR is representing VM, I interpret it that VM itself is the second party.

Yes thats something else, its not really clear either way.

IANAL, just thinking out loud here. Im sure they must have thrashed this out in uk.legal.mod

BenMcr · 07-03-2009, 00:16

My understanding is you can record a call without telling someone as long as it is for own use only.

You can use to transcribe the conversation, but you cannot publish the conversation itself or play it to anyone if you have not sought permission

Tarantella · 07-03-2009, 00:36

Working on the content of the op's one would assume when a initial 12 month contract period ends and prices increase then one is automatically signed up for another 12 months minimum contract.

Is this the case?

BenMcr · 07-03-2009, 00:41

No - you only enter a new contract if you change bundles or add new services.

Price changes do not start a new contract

graf_von_anonym · 07-03-2009, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHISTLED

Good to point out though that only outsource call centres record calls

This is, er, not the truth. All Virgin Media centres that receive incoming calls are capable of recording them, and all of them will do so for a variety of reasons.

piggy · 07-03-2009, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by graf_von_anonym

This is, er, not the truth. All Virgin Media centres that receive incoming calls are capable of recording them, and all of them will do so for a variety of reasons.

OH COME ON NOW......you are letting the truth get in the way of debate, please stop.

BenMcr · 07-03-2009, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by graf_von_anonym

This is, er, not the truth. All Virgin Media centres that receive incoming calls are capable of recording them, and all of them will do so for a variety of reasons.

But they are not archived in the in-house centres. They are recorded for training and monitoring only. Once the reason they have been recorded is completed the recordings are deleted

rogerdraig · 07-03-2009, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

My understanding is you can record a call without telling someone as long as it is for own use only.

You can use to transcribe the conversation, but you cannot publish the conversation itself or play it to anyone if you have not sought permission

the the transcription of the recording can be used anywhere but the recording itself can only be used in a legal setting for example in court with the judges permision and also with your legal advisor's

edit to that

using either just to make fun of some one could end up with you in trouble for committing a "tort" (in the sense of damage to reputation ) but if you are using it to prove your case or get your case heard you will be ok using the coterminous notes ( transcript ) of the conversation and the recording in the right legal setting