Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery

[Russ]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

it's an agenda if you are deliberately flouting a rule as a means to an end.

If you'll accept the word 'agenda' as 'protest' then I'll agree with you.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

So she was praying for the patients away from them? I haven't read the ins and outs of this story. Did she go home to pray, was she in the same room, how was she found out?

I'm with Ramrod, it's good that she hasn't lost her job over this.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

So she was praying for the patients away from them? I haven't read the ins and outs of this story. Did she go home to pray, was she in the same room, how was she found out?

She asked the patient if she could pray for her. Not with her btw, which would have been an entirely different situation. There is nothing to suggest she was going to pray while on duty or even in the building. On this basis we can assume it would be on her own time - or even in her church.

Had she prayed in front of the patient, or simply told her she'd pray for her, then the situation would be very different IMO.

I am pleased she is back on the nurse bank for casual work, but I think this isn't going to go away, myself.

BBC "On Friday, Mrs Petrie told BBC News: "It's part of me. I can't divorce my faith from being a nurse."

NHS North Somerset "we are keenly aware of the importance of an individual’s spiritual belief, and we recognise that Caroline felt that she was acting in the best interests of her patients. For some people of faith, prayer is seen as an integral part of health care and the healing process. That is why NHS services in North Somerset offer spiritual support such as chaplaincy and prayer rooms, for example, available for use by people of all faiths.

It is acceptable to offer spiritual support as part of care when the patient asks for it.

But for nurses, whose principal role is giving nursing care, the initiative lies with the patient and not with the nurse. Nurses like Caroline do not have to set aside their faith, but personal beliefs and practices should be secondary to the needs and beliefs of the patient and the requirements of professional practice."

That reads to me, and I may be mistaken, that they are stating that prayers should not be offered.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

That reads to me, and I may be mistaken, that they are stating that prayers should not be offered.

It's possible they were talking about church and prayer as she then asked "so would you like me to pray for you?" (my conjecture obviously).

On that basis I'm not sure how a patient would ask a nurse if they'd pray for them if they didn't know of the nurse's faith.

Originally Posted by Russ B

It's possible they were talking about church and prayer as she then asked "so would you like me to pray for you?" (my conjecture obviously).

On that basis I'm not sure how a patient would ask a nurse if they'd pray for them if they didn't know of the nurse's faith.

I believe the guidance is for the future, not the previous occurrence.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

I am pleased she is back on the nurse bank for casual work, but I think this isn't going to go away, myself.

BBC "On Friday, Mrs Petrie told BBC News: "It's part of me. I can't divorce my faith from being a nurse."

NHS North Somerset "we are keenly aware of the importance of an individual’s spiritual belief, and we recognise that Caroline felt that she was acting in the best interests of her patients. For some people of faith, prayer is seen as an integral part of health care and the healing process. That is why NHS services in North Somerset offer spiritual support such as chaplaincy and prayer rooms, for example, available for use by people of all faiths.

It is acceptable to offer spiritual support as part of care when the patient asks for it.

But for nurses, whose principal role is giving nursing care, the initiative lies with the patient and not with the nurse. Nurses like Caroline do not have to set aside their faith, but personal beliefs and practices should be secondary to the needs and beliefs of the patient and the requirements of professional practice."

That reads to me, and I may be mistaken, that they are stating that prayers should not be offered.

So if the rules state that prayers should not be offered then it's only correct that she should be disciplined. How she's disciplined is another argument. Should she lose her job over it, no - unless she is a constant rule breaker and has repeatedly been asked not to do something.

It's no different to a an employee taking on a job, knowing what the dress code is, and expecting not to be disciplined for not adhering to it.

Also she asked a patient if the patient wanted her to pray for her. I can see how some people might find that a bit patronising and off putting.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

I believe the guidance is for the future, not the previous occurrence.

That's what I was referring to in the second bit of my post

---------- Post added at 18:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Also she asked a patient if the patient wanted her to pray for her. I can see how some people might find that a bit patronising and off putting.

Well yeah if it was out of the blue but I get the impression that's not the case.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

That's what I was referring to in the second bit of my post

---------- Post added at 18:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------



Well yeah if it was out of the blue but I get the impression that's not the case.

In the BBC link you posted it says she asked the patient if she would like her to prayer for her. That's pretty much out of the blue. The fact that the patient actually made a complaint implies it wasn't a gradual suggestion.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

In the BBC link you posted it says she asked the patient if she would like her to prayer for her. That's pretty much out of the blue. The fact that the patient actually made a complaint implies it wasn't a gradual suggestion.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Coomon sense prevails.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/7873145.stm

From that link.....

Community nurse Caroline Petrie, 45, from Weston-super-Mare asked an elderly woman patient during a home visit if she wanted her to say a prayer for her. The patient complained to the health trust about Mrs Petrie's actions.

[Russ]

They could have been talking about church beforehand and rounded it off with that question...yes?

And the lady complained because she thought others might be offended by it. Funnily enough during her career only one other person complained - and not the person she was talking to.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

They could have been talking about church beforehand and rounded it off with that question...yes?

And the lady complained because she thought others might be offended by it. Funnily enough during her career only one other person complained - and not the person she was talking to.

Is there another link or source you are using as reference for your comments. From the BBC link all I get is :

Ms Petrie was suspended, without pay, on 17 December after asking the elderly female patient if she would like a prayer said for her.
The patient, believed to be in her 70s, refused and Mrs Petrie insisted that she left the matter alone. The sick woman contacted the trust about the incident and Mrs Petrie was challenged by her superiors.

What gets me is that if Mrs Petrie is insisting the sick woman leaves the matter alone then she might be aware of the trouble she might get in if its reported to her employers.

I cannot see how you are reaching your conclusions/ basing your views on the BBC article alone. Is there another giving the nurses version of events that you could link to? Saying "They could have been talking about church beforehand and rounded it off with that question..." is as useful as me saying "She could have been imposing her religious views on the patient"

[Russ]

From the link in the first post:

Mrs Petrie says she was told the patient had said she was not offended by the prayer offer but the woman argued that someone else might have been.

Well when the source is not someone with a vested intersdt in this i might accept it but if Mrs Petrie knew doing this was going to cause trouble then taking her purely on her recollection of events is not sufficient. Also there is a difference between what the bbc says and what the nurse says so obviously this isn't straight forward and could all have been avoided if she had done as she was told. You keep mentioning the nurse and the old lady talking about religion\belief prior to the offer of a prayer is that something you have read Russ or something your speculating on because if it's speculation then it isn't an argument for the point many of us have made and looks more like you creating a favourable instance for the allowing of this woman to offer a prayer that does not seem to have been requested or wanted.