Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by danielf

I mostly posted that to show there are limits to the expression of belief in the workplace. You're not allowed to bully others for instance, and those who have no belief or other beliefs have rights as well, so it seems doubtful that an employer cannot act against inappropriate behaviour simply because someone expresses his/her religious beliefs.

If one of my colleagues keeps trying to convert me, and I complain to my boss, my employer can take action against that person as my rights are violated.

Likewise, if this woman keeps banging on about her beliefs to patients and colleagues (If, I'm not saying she does), then the employer has a case for telling her to stop that kind of behaviour in the workplace.

your right if she was actively continually try to just convert you she could be asked to stop

and as a member of a religion that does preach door to door i think it unlikely that any of the diferent religions i know would be doing that in the work place

but to compare that sort of thing to offering compassion in the form of prayer i doubt very much would stand up i know my religion would fight something like that all the way through the court system

i would put it in the same sort of statement as some one saying "I'll be thinking of you" or "i feel for you"

this is not like the wearing of rings or crosses which are hard to show that they are needed to express your faith ! Pray is a central part of every Christian denomination i know of ( and i have studied a fair few lol ) it is such a big part of the faith asking someone to never utter those words of "i'll pray for you" or "i will pray for you later if you want" it would be like asking a Geordie never to utter again the words "why aye man"

[danielf]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

your right if she was actively continually try to just convert you she could be asked to stop

and as a member of a religion that does preach door to door i think it unlikely that any of the diferent religions i know would be doing that in the work place

but to compare that sort of thing to offering compassion in the form of prayer i doubt very much would stand up i know my religion would fight something like that all the way through the court system

i would put it in the same sort of statement as some one saying "I'll be thinking of you" or "i feel for you"

this is not like the wearing of rings or crosses which are hard to show that they are needed to express your faith ! Pray is a central part of every Christian denomination i know of ( and i have studied a fair few lol ) it is such a big part of the faith asking someone to never utter those words of "i'll pray for you" or "i will pray for you later if you want" it would be like asking a Geordie never to utter again the words "why aye man"

That's all fair enough. However, it seems likely that there is a bit more to this story. As we've established, there is a limit to people's freedom to express their religion when it becomes annoying to others. The fact that she had been spoken to about her behaviour after previous incidents does at least raise the possibility that she was a bit overzealous.

Having said that, I would feel uncomfortable (but not offended) if someone where to ask me if I wanted her to pray for me, so I would actually prefer to not be asked. So, something that is a kind gesture to one person, may make another person uncomfortable.

As usual, a balance needs to be found between the rights of all involved, and if this woman has been a nuisance to people, than I do think it is right that action is taken. If she hasn't than it probably is a bit silly (in particular because there may be a lot of people who really appreciate the gesture), but I do think it is good that the right of people to not be subjected to other people's religious beliefs is taken into consideration.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by danielf

but I do think it is good that the right of people to not be subjected to other people's religious beliefs is taken into consideration.

that's the one bit that is most likely not covered by any of those acts

what is covered is your right to ridicule and hold to account anyone's religion

however curtailing a persons way of expressing thier religion is only suposed to be done where it is clearly breaking a law or causes offence to the majority of people and even then according to the acts care has to be taken on how it is curtailed

the bosses of this trust though do have to take account of patients and carers wishes but the way to do that should be to take the worker away from that patient just as they would if a female patient requested no male helpers

Originally Posted by danielf

That's all fair enough. However, it seems likely that there is a bit more to this story. As we've established, there is a limit to people's freedom to express their religion when it becomes annoying to others. The fact that she had been spoken to about her behaviour after previous incidents does at least raise the possibility that she was a bit overzealous.

Having said that, I would feel uncomfortable (but not offended) if someone where to ask me if I wanted her to pray for me, so I would actually prefer to not be asked. So, something that is a kind gesture to one person, may make another person uncomfortable.

As usual, a balance needs to be found between the rights of all involved, and if this woman has been a nuisance to people, than I do think it is right that action is taken. If she hasn't than it probably is a bit silly (in particular because there may be a lot of people who really appreciate the gesture), but I do think it is good that the right of people to not be subjected to other people's religious beliefs is taken into consideration.

But I wonder how many others were comforted by her making the offer and did not feel in any way offended or put upon..Might be nice if they spoke up..

What a society we are making for ourselves..Where a kind word or offer is taken offence at...

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

But I wonder how many others were comforted by her making the offer and did not feel in any way offended or put upon..Might be nice if they spoke up..

What a society we are making for ourselves..Where a kind word or offer is taken offence at...

I did make that point (about people being comforted by it) myself. I have very mixed feelings about this. If it is a genuine kind word offered to people where she genuinely thinks it will be appreciated this suspension sounds bang out of order. It is also possible however, that the woman is a bit of a zealot that brings up religion at every possible opportunity. The latter, I would consider unprofessional. But, as usual, we don't have the full facts, so it's difficult to judge.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by danielf

It is also possible however, that the woman is a bit of a zealot that brings up religion at every possible opportunity.

If the above was true then I think there'd have been a LOT more complaints made about her during her career, as opposed to theonly two so far.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Russ B

If the above was true then I think there'd have been a LOT more complaints made about her during her career, as opposed to theonly two so far.

Yes, that's a fair point. On the other hand, the fact that not many people complained does not mean they didn't object or felt uncomfortable about. Just that they didn't object strongly enough to complain. Having said that, I do agree that things should not be banned for fear of upsetting people, without any evidence that people do actually get upset.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by danielf

Yes, that's a fair point. On the other hand, the fact that not many people complained does not mean they didn't object or felt uncomfortable about. Just that they didn't object strongly enough to complain.

Bear in mind how vitrolic some people on CF are towards religion. This forum might not be an ideal representation of society however it goes to show you there are plenty of people out there who are more than happy to totally overreact if anyone has the cheek to mention religion in their presence. So with that in mind, coupled with the number of carers, patients and their families that she's likely to have encountered over the years, I reckon the chances of her being some kind of zealot who 'pushes her religion' on anyone she can find are pretty much non-existant.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Bear in mind how vitrolic some people on CF are towards religion. This forum might not be an ideal representation of society however it goes to show you there are plenty of people out there who are more than happy to totally overreact if anyone has the cheek to mention religion in their presence. So with that in mind, coupled with the number of carers, patients and their families that she's likely to have encountered over the years, I reckon the chances of her being some kind of zealot who 'pushes her religion' on anyone she can find are pretty much non-existant.

That's the one thing I hate about the web. Normally level-headed people turn in to mad raving lunatics when they hide behind the anonimity of a keyboard

[rogerdraig]

mad never ( now where did i put that pink elephant )

[SMG]

Although this nurse meant no harm to her patient, she should have kept her beliefs to herself. Its certainly possible that the patient or her carer took exception to her attitude, simply because it isnt the "normal" thing to say. Perhaps if they knew her better, they would not see any cause for concern. Most religious people I know are simply getting on with life, not pushing their beliefs, just live & let live people.

I have a shattered pancreas, splinters & internal damage. Its not life threatening now, but I would be a bit concerned if my Doc said "I`l say a prayer for you". I think i`d be, WTF! Am I on the way out? Its just not expected for someone in the health profession to offer spiritual help.

I suspect the complaints have come from people who do not know this nurse very well. Had they known her, & her religious standing, I feel sure this would never have seen the light of day.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

mad never ( now where did i put that pink elephant )

I'd never call you mad. Deluded maybe, but not mad

[piggy]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Bear in mind how vitrolic some people on CF are towards religion. This forum might not be an ideal representation of society however it goes to show you there are plenty of people out there who are more than happy to totally overreact if anyone has the cheek to mention religion in their presence. So with that in mind, coupled with the number of carers, patients and their families that she's likely to have encountered over the years, I reckon the chances of her being some kind of zealot who 'pushes her religion' on anyone she can find are pretty much non-existant.

how many people have been killed in the name of religion? i would suggest that is one of the reasons they are very vitriol towards religion, not because they are members of CF.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by SMG

Although this nurse meant no harm to her patient, she should have kept her beliefs to herself.

She did keep them to herself, otherwise she would have been asking the patient to join her in prayer.

Originally Posted by piggy

how many people have been killed in the name of religion?

Less than the number who have been killed for land, power or politics yet the vitrol is still reserved for religion. Double standards?

I'm hazarding a guess none of those with faith on CF have ever "killed in the name of religion" yet we still get that vitrol. Double standards?

This nurse was not harming anyone in any way. I'll go out on a limb and suggest if anyone on here claims they'd be offended if she'd done the same to them it's purely because they want to get a "religious person" in to trouble.

I think people should remember it was not necessarily her Religion that was the problem, it was her indifference to her supervisors orders. She had done this before and was requested to avoid doing so. Now, that may have been a unreasonable request to make of her (although given the complaints, it may have been for her own good. Don't mix Religion/Politics with work) and I also think she suspension was harsh.

She is not being targeted for her religion but her failure to do what was asked for her.

Also The Woman that reported her is a cow.