Watch your job

[etccarmageddon]

I have a lot of respect for these guys - they are SCARED - they're seeing jobs being slaughtered in the car industry etc and they obviously want to fight for themselves.

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by Xan

minimum wage is a joke topped up by the tax payer? meaning i pay for that contarct in a way(tax credits)

A tender contract can define any minimum wage or any existing trade rate.. not the hysterically pathetic minimum wage as defined by HMG.

Originally Posted by Matt D

If we force companies to employ only British workers, how does that work? Do we just ignore EU rules? Do we pull out of the EU completely? Do we allow some EU workers here, but only in certain industries or areas? Do we force companies to accept bids which are less competitive than ones they would have otherwise accepted, which may then affect the business, & maybe then make them think "we should 'ends in off' out of here before it costs us even more"?

How would we do it?

Now come on Matt, you can't go asking reasonable questions like that. Why can't you just wave a placard and shout mindless jingoistic slogans?

---------- Post added at 00:38 ---------- Previous post was at 00:36 ----------

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

I have a lot of respect for these guys - they are SCARED - they're seeing jobs being slaughtered in the car industry etc and they obviously want to fight for themselves.

Believe it or not, so do I. But I'm angry at their leaders, who are fully aware of the legal situation. There is absolutely no hope in hell of these poor blokes who are standing outside power stations and refineries of getting what they're after here. They have been sold a lie and are being used as pawns in someone else's grand political game.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

Because we are not talking about Friends, Families, Governments, or even small Family firms. Now, you can send them a message that you won't use companies that, in your view, do not give adequate priority to British workers but the government cannot, and should not, enforce such a measure.

It would be detrimental to the British economy in the long run, it would deter foreign companies and limit the opportunity for British companies to expand and compete with other international firms which do not have the same limitations.

Look at France if you need an example that Protectionism just don't not work.

It's not about protectionism it's about doing what's right for the workforce, here we have a sub contractor abusing people for profit, it's alright them saying they will be paid more than their British counterparts, well why hire them then? The boat and shipping them over can't come cheap, especially when they have perfectly able bodied workers outside with placards, perhaps the rumours are true about a lot of them not being properly trained and failing drink and drugs test aren't without foundation.

Tbh nothing shocks me with Total, they are a company I have had nothing to do with for a long time, their activities in Burma have aided the Junta's genocide against the Karen people and should have lead to a mass boycott of their products long ago.

But the bottom line Daddy is this: They have done nothing illegal. On the other hand if the Government were to accede to the protesters' damands and legislate to give British workers primacy in the British labour market, we as a country would be in violation of a number of very large and significant treaties we have signed with other European nations.

Originally Posted by Chris

Now come on Matt, you can't go asking reasonable questions like that. Why can't you just wave a placard and shout mindless jingoistic slogans?

---------- Post added at 00:38 ---------- Previous post was at 00:36 ----------



Believe it or not, so do I. But I'm angry at their leaders, who are fully aware of the legal situation. There is absolutely no hope in hell of these poor blokes who are standing outside power stations and refineries of getting what they're after here. They have been sold a lie and are being used as pawns in someone else's grand political game.

It would, in my opinion, be far better to engage the question of why can't we compete equally in a tender against a company such as IREM?

Their advantage was, apparently, a directly employed workforce with the necessary skills for the job - according to this statement by LOR

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/news/...l/article.html


The bigger problem is the 'saleability' of the UK workforce, which is relative to a long standing shortfall in training, in my opinion - knee jerking a response to one construction project won't solve that?

We need to get a properly resourced strategy in place to provide the opportunity for our young people to acquire skills that will be properly competitive with other EU countries, not just whinge when we get beaten ....

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

But the bottom line Daddy is this: They have done nothing illegal. On the other hand if the Government were to accede to the protesters' damands and legislate to give British workers primacy in the British labour market, we as a country would be in violation of a number of very large and significant treaties we have signed with other European nations.

Well the legality of their actions will become clear when it comes out what their terms and conditions are and how qualified they are to do the job and what is illegal is for local workers to be excluded from being considered for vacancies, which has almost certainly happened here.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Matt D

Do you have a link to the photo? Who/what were they sticking their fingers up at? Us, or the tabloid photographer?

Here it is, 2nd or 3rd pic down

[papa smurf]

this area is starved of good jobs ,its not easy getting a place at the refinery ,we have seen the total decline of the fishing industry
the decline in the food factories
tioxide to be shut
cars piling up on the dock side that no one wants
transport firms gone
ship repair industry gone

at what point do we say enough is enough these workers are stealing the bread off our tables /the clothes off our kids backs. and if your happy with that then give your job or prospect of one to one of your European friends ,i'm sure the banks will be sympathetic when your on bended knees pleading for a little more time to save your lifestyle, its all very well preaching from your lofty perch on the moral high ground about right and wrong , why dont some of you come to the refinery and voice your views in public, if you think your being reasonable and fair then surly you will be met with open arms.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

this area is starved of good jobs ,its not easy getting a place at the refinery ,we have seen the total decline of the fishing industry
the decline in the food factories
tioxide to be shut
cars piling up on the dock side that no one wants
transport firms gone
ship repair industry gone

at what point do we say enough is enough these workers are stealing the bread off our tables /the clothes off our kids backs. and if your happy with that then give your job or prospect of one to one of your European friends ,i'm sure the banks will be sympathetic when your on bended knees pleading for a little more time to save your lifestyle, its all very well preaching from your lofty perch on the moral high ground about right and wrong , why dont some of you come to the refinery and voice your views in public, if you think your being reasonable and fair then surly you will be met with open arms.

I doubt there are many people here who think this is fair, smurf. However, fair or not, what the company is doing is totally legal. Their right to bring in foreign, European labour is an unavoidable part of our membership of the EU.

These workers can protest if they want, but what's their strategy here? What's the endgame? What are their demands? Absolutely nothing is going to change as a result of this. Nothing can change as a result of this.

What we are in fact seeing here is yet another almighty cock-up by our glorious leader Brown, who is happy to stand up and mouth brainless slogans that he knows he can't deliver on. These workers are parroting 'British jobs for British workers' because only a few months ago Brown said he would deliver exactly that. Well, he can't, and he never could. He has given them false hope, and all for the sake of a few weeks' respite from the rotten opinion polls.

[sir_drinks_alot]

long as people need food my job is safe

[papa smurf]

[quote chris]"These workers can protest if they want, but what's their strategy here? What's the endgame? What are their demands? Absolutely nothing is going to change as a result of this. Nothing can change as a result of this."



http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/news/...l/article.html

the end game is imo to get the British people to back the British job market.
this will not end well, if these workers remain in the area i would have serious doubts about there safety.
"nothing can change"-- never say never. it works well enough in France, they throw a wobbler and every one caves in , i think its better to try and make a stand now rather than wish we had in the future when its too late, a great show of solidarity by the existing work force and fellow workers across the UK, makes me proud to be BRITISH .

Can someone please tell me:

1) How you would achieve the policy of securing "British jobs for British Workers".
2) How this would not actually reduce the amount of jobs in the country by inadvertently turning away foreign companies (like the French company, so not really British anyway)

---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:49 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

[quote chris]"These workers can protest if they want, but what's their strategy here? What's the endgame? What are their demands? Absolutely nothing is going to change as a result of this. Nothing can change as a result of this."



http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/news/...l/article.html

the end game is imo to get the British people to back the British job market.
this will not end well, if these workers remain in the area i would have serious doubts about there safety.
"nothing can change"-- never say never. it works well enough in France, they throw a wobbler and every one caves in , i think its better to try and make a stand now rather than wish we had in the future when its too late, a great show of solidarity by the existing work force and fellow workers across the UK, makes me proud to be BRITISH .

It has not worked in France. They have had souring unemployment for years. Even makes the current situation here look desirable. They have struggled for ages in produce jobs, and it's the fault of spineless politicians giving in to the national will of "France first".

People are not economists, just because it's so obvious to them does not mean it's correct.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

I doubt there are many people here who think this is fair, smurf. However, fair or not, what the company is doing is totally legal.

As I said earlier there is a question mark over the legality of what they are doing, did you hear Derek Simpson on Radio 4's 'Today' programme?

Mr Simpson said that the current strike at the Lindsey Oil Refinery was a result of a practice seen at other factories, whereby foreign contractors “exclude UK workers from consideration�, and questioned how they could afford to pay workers from abroad at fair rates, on top of transport and accommodation costs.

“What’s happening at the Lindsey Refinery is the same situation that is occurring in two or three or more sites across Britain. The real question isn’t foreign workers – it is that these companies say they will not consider UK workers under any circumstances.

“There is circumstantial evidence that some of the contractors are letting it be known that they have no intention of employing UK labour, even if a vacancy arises. This is absolutely outrageous, and potentially illegal.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Damien

Can someone please tell me:

1) How you would achieve the policy of securing "British jobs for British Workers".
2) How this would not actually reduce the amount of jobs in the country by inadvertently turning away foreign companies (like the French company, so not really British anyway)

---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:49 ----------



It has not worked in France. They have had souring unemployment for years. Even makes the current situation here look desirable. They have struggled for ages in produce jobs, and it's the fault of spineless politicians giving in to the national will of "France first".

People are not economists, just because it's so obvious to them does not mean it's correct.

people are trying to protect there future -so that they can afford to send there sons and daughters to university -buy a nice house- own a car -buy food- pay the bills-have a few quid to spend on a footy match and a few beers on a Saturday,is it to much to expect the work in the refinery they built/maintained ,to be awarded to local tradesmen of which there is an abundance.