Should smoking in cars carrying children be banned?

Originally Posted by TheNorm

That point is a bit off-key (please excuse the pun).

The "side effect" does not have to be direct - you can be exposed to the effects of someone else drinking. Being put at risk by a drunk driver is equivalent to being put at risk from passive smoking (in my opinion).

But there are legal measures in effect to reduce the risk of you being harmed by a drunk driver. Prior to the smoking ban there were no measures aimed at protecting the public from passive smoking.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Chris

But there are legal measures in ....

Agreed. I'm just pointing out that the toxin itself (smoke or ethanol) is not the complete issue - much more important is action of the person partaking.

There are some guys who smoke on the open-air platform at my local rail station in the morning. Strictly speaking this is illegal, but they make sure they smoke "downwind" of other passengers. For a mother to drive while smoking with children in the car, while legal, is completely wrong.

[rogerdraig]

smoking cost the NHS about £2.7 billion last year

see
http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=189736

but even though ASH did those calculations they still don't show the true figure as they don't include the many who end up being treated because of someone else's smoke affecting their asthma or other lung related ailments

i have been to hospital twice out of the 4 times last year because of an attack that started with someone else smoking near me and i have lost count of the extra medication i have had to take because of others peoples smoke ( thankfully a bit less now its getting banned from many places )

asthma cost the NHS £9 billion last year if even say 10% of that was added it would start to up that smoking cost
see
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...ug-Xolair.html


then start adding those with

ARDS
Bronchiectasis
Bronchopulmonary Dysplasia
Bronchoscopy
Cystic Fibrosis
Chronic Bronchitis (COPD)
Chronic Pulmonary Obstructive Disease (COPD)
Emphysema (COPD)
Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis
Lung Function Tests
Lung Ventilation Perfusion Scan (VQ scan)
Lymphangioleiomyomatosis (LAM)
Pleurisy and Other Pleural Disorders
Pleural Effusion
Pneumonia
Pneumothorax
Pulmonary Arterial Hypertension
Respiratory Distress Syndrome (RDS)
Sarcoidosis

then you can go on to heart attacks which although those who smoke are allready included they dont ingeneral include passive smoking ones in here and a number of place have now reported massive drops in heart attacks in areas where smoking has been banned in one orm or another

see here for one example

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...869585,00.html

so any finacial argument over the roughly £10 billion revenue from cigarettes is really a non starter

as to alcohol

it cost the nhs about £2.7 billion to £25.1 billion

see
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_170745

against

£453.4 billion revenue from alcohol

see

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/economy/taxation/alcohol-duties/alcohol-duties-$366621.htm


so i dont see how these can be compared

What about car fumes that also have a large impact on asthma in fact once we start going down that road of banning everything that can harm others what exactly will be left. Next we will see the emphasis move onto alcohol that costs far more and does more damage in many other ways. Then it will be fast food as that must cost the nhs a pretty penny. Thats how stupid this is going to get if we are not careful so for those of you shouting for a total ban on smoking think about what you enjoy doing and after you have got your ban on smoking count the days till they ban something that matters to you.

[rogerdraig]

the studies do show where there are heavy concentration normally meaning very built up areas with very heave traffic and mostly where there are lots of diesel vehicles it does seem to impact asthma

myself i have never had a problem with a car passing me in the street or even when stuck in traffic

now if you want to talk bon fires now they do have an effect on me often lol ( though mostly because i get too close lol )

and as i said i am not about banning it every where just where there are other people

i was pointing out that it doesnt support itself finacialy to those who seem to think it does and showing trying to say alcohol is jusy as bad finacialy is wrong

as to alcohol the laws that are here should be better enforced ( did you know its against the law to serve some one whos drunk

http://www.thesite.org/drinkanddrugs...nkingandthelaw

personaly i think they should make it so unless the publican can see those he is pouring drinks for he shouldnt serve the drinks

( that would meen in a busy pub you would have to go to the bar to pick up your drink )

that would cut a load of the fri /sat night nhs cost in a stroke

back to smoking in a car i find it indefensible to do so

either your addiction is truely so bad you shouldnt be driving any way if you cant last till the end of a journy or it must be affect the way you drive which is breaking the law as it stands

even with other adults i think its bad enough but at least they can say no or ask to be let out ( which is what i would do )

[budwieser]

"either your addiction is truely so bad you shouldnt be driving any way if you cant last till the end of a journy or it must be affect the way you drive which is breaking the law as it stands"
You`re talking crap mate, why shouldn`t a smoker have a smoke in the car if he`s on his own and how does it make his driving impaired.?

[Dai]

Easy. If you want a fag let the kids walk home..

That way they're getting valuable cardiovascular exercise as well. Everybody wins.

[rogerdraig]

the thread is about smoking with someone in car !

and it does affect driving not in the same way as alcohol but it still does cause problems

when i was an driving instructor i had many pupils who's driving became more and more erratic if they couldnt get their fix after an hour a few who needed breaks ever 30 min

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

smoking cost the NHS about £2.7 billion last year

see
http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=189736

but even though ASH did those calculations they still don't show the true figure as they don't include the many who end up being treated because of someone else's smoke affecting their asthma or other lung related ailments

i have been to hospital twice out of the 4 times last year because of an attack that started with someone else smoking near me and i have lost count of the extra medication i have had to take because of others peoples smoke ( thankfully a bit less now its getting banned from many places )

asthma cost the NHS £9 billion last year if even say 10% of that was added it would start to up that smoking cost
see
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...ug-Xolair.html


then start adding those with

ARDS
Bronchiectasis
Bronchopulmonary Dysplasia
Bronchoscopy
Cystic Fibrosis
Chronic Bronchitis (COPD)
Chronic Pulmonary Obstructive Disease (COPD)
Emphysema (COPD)
Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis
Lung Function Tests
Lung Ventilation Perfusion Scan (VQ scan)
Lymphangioleiomyomatosis (LAM)
Pleurisy and Other Pleural Disorders
Pleural Effusion
Pneumonia
Pneumothorax
Pulmonary Arterial Hypertension
Respiratory Distress Syndrome (RDS)
Sarcoidosis

then you can go on to heart attacks which although those who smoke are allready included they dont ingeneral include passive smoking ones in here and a number of place have now reported massive drops in heart attacks in areas where smoking has been banned in one orm or another

see here for one example

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...869585,00.html

so any finacial argument over the roughly £10 billion revenue from cigarettes is really a non starter

Only if a significant percentage of those costs is due to smoking (be it passive or active).

as to alcohol

it cost the nhs about £2.7 billion to £25.1 billion

see
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_170745

against

£453.4 billion revenue from alcohol

see

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/economy/taxation/alcohol-duties/alcohol-duties-$366621.htm


so i dont see how these can be compared

Erm, your figures are out. That 453.4 billion was HMRC's total revenue.

Alcohol accounts for about £8.3 (or so) billion of that.

• HM Revenue and Customs' receipts for spirits duties in 2006-2007 were £2.2 billion, and are projected to be £2.3 billion in 2007-2008 .

• Revenues for wine duties in 2006-2007 were £2.4 billion, and are projected to be £2.5 billion in 2007-2008.

• Revenues for beer and cider duties in 2006-2007 were £3.3 billion, and are projected to be £3.4 billion in 2007-2008.

• These figures should be taken in the context of a projected total of HMRC receipts of £453.4 billion for 2007-8.

Statistics: (Source: HM Treasury, "Budget 2007")

[rogerdraig]

hmm i did miss read that bit

will get back the info i had earlier lol as that doesnt add up to the 5% of total goverment revenue from alcohol i had earlier either which should be higher than 8.3 hmm

Originally Posted by freezin

Not if it gets to the point of nannying it's not. Where do you think it should stop? Should alcohol be banned for example? Extreme sports?



I appreciate clothes that don't smell of cigarette smoke after a night at the pub too, but no one makes anyone go to a pub. If there had been a demand, there'd have been more smoke free pubs, and the ones that did exist prior to the ban would have been profitable enough for the idea to expand.



Urinating on somebody's coat isn't the same thing, is it? And would you be happy to pay the extra taxes that would inevitably result in a total ban?

Do you call making places we are all entitled to visit, this includes pubs you know, pubs are not just for smokers as you seem to be implying with your assertion that nobody makes you go to a pub.


With regard Urine, I was making the link between ammonia in cigarettes and ammonia that is naturally secreted form the body, both do not smell nice do they?

Would I be happy to pay more taxes if smoking was totally banned?
The way our country is at the moment we are all including our children going to be paying back a huge debt anyway, what difference would say 5p in the pound make?

The original question was should smoking in cars carrying children be banned and I still say yes.

---------- Post added at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

Originally Posted by budwieser

"either your addiction is truely so bad you shouldnt be driving any way if you cant last till the end of a journy or it must be affect the way you drive which is breaking the law as it stands"
You`re talking crap mate, why shouldn`t a smoker have a smoke in the car if he`s on his own and how does it make his driving impaired.?

If the driver has pulled over to a safe place then why not?
If on the other hand theyre smoking as they're driving they may aswell be using a mobile phone.

[rogerdraig]

ok 2 amendments the cost to nhs is only the lower figure of £2.7 the higher one includes loses to industry and a lot of other stuff so not faire to compare as they are not included in the stats for smoking

the figure for alcohol tax including the vat is some where near £10 billion but as i am adding up from several sites the moment i cant give a citation at the moment lol ( there must be a stats site out there with this on one page sigh )

so not as big as gap as i first saw but alcohol still out pays it way to thr nhs

as to the other bits even if you just take 10% of those other ilness cost and add them to smoking costs it soon piles up

( lol i only got into the figures as a side point )

main point smoking damages not only the smoker i have no problem with people doing anything they like whether harmfull or dangerous as long as they keep it to themselves

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

so not as big as gap as i first saw but alcohol still out pays it way to thr nhs

Factor in costs from Alcohol addiction programs, treaments for liver and heart disease, and the costs for security/policing and repairs to A&E when people get ****ed up and start a fight in A&E every Friday and Saturday night (and other nights where there are special occassions). And, yes, it does happen frequently (I have several friends who have worked in A&E and had to work these shifts).

Also, factor in increased costs for policing outside hospitals on these occassions. I realise it's a minority of drinkers that cause problems but they *do* cause problems.

Finally, factor in the cost to industry of millions of people doing sickies because they are hung over.

I suspect you'll find the final cost of Alcohol is a lot higher than £8.3 billion a year.

[rogerdraig]

yep you can do that thats where the £25 billion figure came from but then you have to do the same for cigaretts which would bump that up massively to

and if you do it will still end up with smoking causing more problems financially than drinking does

not that i against things that bring ex stream drinking down either but in moderation it can be beneficial

smoking though except for some slight medicinal uses for specific conditions only does harm

[Hom3r]

Smoking should be banned while driving full stop.