Scores die in Israeli air strikes

[jamiefrost]

Both sides are to blame, and the current type support from other countries does not help. Some of Americas help while turning a blind eye to the consequces is wrong as is the the supply of weapons into Gaza.

I do find it strange that a country with no money and subject to a complete blockade can keep on firing rocket after rocket.

Would not the money and effort require to aquire these weapons be better spent on food and medical aid.

By the way the same goes for all the weapons supplied by America.

JJ

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Oh dear, comparing Jewish solidiers to Nazis in WWII. You have done the unspeakable. I hope you are wearing your flak jacket.

In all honesty, I'm glad someone other than the usual suspect has come up with that statement. It's heartneing to see that this type of statement is just not confined to those whom everyone believes to be anti israeli or anti semetic.

I'm certainly comparing some of their actions with some of what happened in WWII. The Govt. of Israel and its generals are responsible for this action and I've heard quite a number of Jewish people making the same analogy over recent days. It must be much harder for them than it is for me to be so critical of their own people.

I don't condemn Israel for responding to a threat but their actions are wholly disproportionate and likely only to make matters far worse.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Oh dear, comparing Jewish solidiers to Nazis in WWII. You have done the unspeakable. I hope you are wearing your flak jacket.

In all honesty, I'm glad someone other than the usual suspect has come up with that statement. It's heartneing to see that this type of statement is just not confined to those whom everyone believes to be anti israeli or anti semetic.

I think if you go back through military history you'll find that the same tactics are used by both the forces of good and the forces of evil.

The sad truth is that in any military conflict, either side will do what it has to in order to kill off the enemy. Many despicable acts are carried out during military conflicts.

Another ironic truth is that when all the fighting is over the combatants still have to sit down round a table and agree conditions for peace.

It's a shame that they could not do that in the beginning as thousands of lives would be saved and much misery would be avoided.

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

If I can butt in, I would say that most of the wars since 1947 that have invloved Israel would not have happened if they had not forced palestinians/arabs of their own land by forceful/terror methods, and stolen land of them.

Or if the Arabs had not rejected the UN plan and start attacks on the Jewish population back in the 1940s

Not that it excuses Israeli actions since.

[jamiefrost]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

If I can butt in, I would say that most of the wars since 1947 that have involved Israel would not have happened if they had not forced palestinians/arabs of their own land by forceful/terror methods, and stolen land of them.

it can just as easily be said that all the wars have been caused by the Arab league's refusal to agree to the UN mandated solution to a 2 state solution.

How far back do we take this! Do I get to claim reparations for the viking invasion into the UK.

It's been said before the past is the past the only way to solve this is to look forward. I think this was proved during the resolution of the IRA conflict

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

it can just as easily be said that all the wars have been caused by the Arab league's refusal to agree to the UN mandated solution to a 2 state solution.

How far back do we take this! Do I get to claim reparations for the viking invasion into the UK.

It's been said before the past is the past the only way to solve this is to look forward. I think this was proved during the resolution of the IRA conflict

You are right. Israel and the Palestinians DO need to focus on the future but bear in mind the IRA conflict was resolved by putting the weapons away & talking out differences and coming up with non-violent solutions.

I, for one, certainly hope that this dispute is not going on in another 60 years.

Originally Posted by ntluser

You are right. Israel and the Palestinians DO need to focus on the future but bear in mind the IRA conflict was resolved by putting the weapons away & talking out differences and coming up with non-violent solutions.

I, for one, certainly hope that this dispute is not going on in another 60 years.

It was also achieved by us not resorting to the sorts of tactics that Israel does.

when we did use those tactics it backfired on us.

Internment was such a case.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

It was also achieved by us not resorting to the sorts of tactics that Israel does.

when we did use those tactics it backfired on us.

Internment was such a case.

Both sides have to agree to resolve differences by peaceful means but it still means that weapons have to be taken out of the equation.

There has to be be acceptance, respect and tolerance between the two parties but that will take years to build.

However, it is not impossible and it is a worthwhile aim.

[SMG]

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

I do find it strange that a country with no money and subject to a complete blockade can keep on firing rocket after rocket.

Would not the money and effort require to aquire these weapons be better spent on food and medical aid.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation. These people have no interest in helping the civilian population with food or medicine. Their interest is to further their cause by whatever means, including sacrificing women & children, targeting Israel, & now in desperation, suicide bombers.

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Unless he imposes conditions on Israel to remove their blockade of Gaza as part of a new ceasefire deal then I do not see anything he says making a difference.

---------- Post added at 11:07 ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 ----------

All very well discussing falied peace talks in recent years and blaming it all on the Palestinians/Hamas/PLO but let's not forget how the Israeli's originally took over Arab land.

http://countrystudies.us/israel/23.htm

Good find, as it seems very even-handed.

page 15 of the same website points out -
"The other major transformation in Palestinian Arab society during the Mandate concerned the issue of land ownership. During the years of Ottoman rule, the question of private property rights was never fully articulated. The tenuous nature of private property rights enabled the Zionist movement to acquire large tracts of land that had been Arab owned. The sale of land to Jewish settlers, which occurred even during the most intense phases of the Palestinian Revolt, reflected the lack of national cohesion and institutional structure that might have enabled the Palestinian Arabs to withstand the lure of quick profits. Instead, when increased Jewish land purchases caused property prices to spiral, both the Arab landowning class and absentee landlords, many of whom resided outside Palestine, were quick to sell for unprecedented profits. In the 1930s, when Palestine was beset by a severe economic depression, large numbers of Arab peasants, unable to pay either their Arab landlords or taxes to the government, sold their land. The British did not intervene in the land purchases mainly because they needed the influx of Jewish capital to pay for Jewish social services and to maintain the Jewish economy."

Page 17 is also quite interesting (imho).

[Uncle Peter]

Reports coming in that up to 40 people have been killed as a result of tank fire on a UN run school in Gaza.

"Doctors said all the dead were either people sheltering in the school or residents of Jabalya refugee camp, in the north of the Gaza Strip."

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...50548920090106

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Good find, as it seems very even-handed.

page 15 of the same website points out -
"The other major transformation in Palestinian Arab society during the Mandate concerned the issue of land ownership. During the years of Ottoman rule, the question of private property rights was never fully articulated. The tenuous nature of private property rights enabled the Zionist movement to acquire large tracts of land that had been Arab owned. The sale of land to Jewish settlers, which occurred even during the most intense phases of the Palestinian Revolt, reflected the lack of national cohesion and institutional structure that might have enabled the Palestinian Arabs to withstand the lure of quick profits. Instead, when increased Jewish land purchases caused property prices to spiral, both the Arab landowning class and absentee landlords, many of whom resided outside Palestine, were quick to sell for unprecedented profits. In the 1930s, when Palestine was beset by a severe economic depression, large numbers of Arab peasants, unable to pay either their Arab landlords or taxes to the government, sold their land. The British did not intervene in the land purchases mainly because they needed the influx of Jewish capital to pay for Jewish social services and to maintain the Jewish economy."

Page 17 is also quite interesting (imho).

Dammit, but history will insist on not being all black-and-white, won't it ...

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by SMG

Hamas is a terrorist organisation. These people have no interest in helping the civilian population with food or medicine. Their interest is to further their cause by whatever means, including sacrificing women & children, targeting Israel, & now in desperation, suicide bombers.

You know the tunnels brought in vital food and medicine as well as weapons and they have a big interest in helping the people of Gaza, how do you think they got into government in the first place? You had Fatah helping themselves to millions in aid, driving around in limos whilst Hamas fed people and educated their kids, I know who I'd vote for as well tbh

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

Reports coming in that up to 40 people have been killed as a result of tank fire on a UN run school in Gaza.

"Doctors said all the dead were either people sheltering in the school or residents of Jabalya refugee camp, in the north of the Gaza Strip."

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...50548920090106

That's extremely sad and so unnecessary.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by ntluser

That's extremely sad and so unnecessary.

But no doubt the Israelis will say that it was a Hamas hiding place or weapons stock pile so its not their fault.

Where are the people of Gaza supposed to take refuge if every building in Gaza is a legitimate target? I hope the people in Israel sleep well at night when they see even the limited pictures of kids dying that we get to see here.