Scores die in Israeli air strikes

[ntluser]

Shocking though this is, it's even more shocking that the Palestinians have not done the one thing that would have prevented it all in the first place i.e. stopped the Militants from firing rockets into Israel.

Imagine what would happen if a group of militants set up a base in say, Manchester and began launching missiles at cities in neighbouring countries.

The British Government would be expected to stop the militants immediately and in the absence of any effective action the governments of the countries affected would then take action to deal with them.

It's possible that in the course of that action innocent British lives would be lost and British property destroyed.

If the Palestinian government could not deal with the Militants why did they not request aid from the UN? Why did countries objecting to the air strikes not offer to put their troops on the ground to stop the militants?

All of this was preventable. Why then was it that effective preventative action was not taken?

[chaos23]

Originally Posted by ntluser

Shocking though this is, it's even more shocking that the Palestinians have not done the one thing that would have prevented it all in the first place i.e. stopped the Militants from firing rockets into Israel.

Imagine what would happen if a group of militants set up a base in say, Manchester and began launching missiles at cities in neighbouring countries.

The British Government would be expected to stop the militants immediately and in the absence of any effective action the governments of the countries affected would then take action to deal with them.

It's possible that in the course of that action innocent British lives would be lost and British property destroyed.

If the Palestinian government could not deal with the Militants why did they not request aid from the UN? Why did countries objecting to the air strikes not offer to put their troops on the ground to stop the militants?

All of this was preventable. Why was then that effective preventative action was not taken?

Maybe Israel should have dropped the blockade of Gaza and let in badly needed medicine and food.

Originally Posted by chaos23

Jewish control of the British Media:

http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/...ish-media.html

Well reasoned response - when in doubt, play the conspiracy card.

[Maribel]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Telegraph 3rd January 2009
"The group had taken advantage of the ceasefire to smuggle weapons into Gaza through an enormous network of underground tunnels along the border with Egypt.

What's the nationality of the author Dina Kraft? Is there anything non-jewish published by Dina?

What evidence does Dina give of the smuggled rockets? Ziltso!

Dina is the mounthpiece of IDF....Dina has been for years. The NY times had to apologize once or twice for Dina's porkies....

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by chaos23

Maybe Israel should have dropped the blockade of Gaza and let in badly needed medicine and food.

I don't see how spending money on making missiles helps resolve that situation.

Every time Hamas adopts a military solution to solve its differences with Israel, it just reinforces the Israeli view that Palestininians mean them harm, which is why the Israelis tend to respond in kind but to a much greater degree.

The protests around the world have alerted governments to the public desire to resolve this problem. The Palestinians have the attention of the world.

Why do they need to keep firing missiles? Why not use the UN or sympathetic countries to obtain humanitarian aid?

Continuing to fire missiles distracts from the need to address the crisis and focuses on the military conflict.

[chaos23]

Originally Posted by ntluser

I don't see how spending money on making missiles helps resolve that situation.

Every time Hamas adopts a military solution to solve its differences with Israel, it just reinforces the Israeli view that Palestininians mean them harm, which is why the Israelis tend to respond in kind but to a much greater degree.

The protests around the world have alerted governments to the public desire to resolve this problem. The Palestinians have the attention of the world.

Why do they need to keep firing missiles? Why not use the UN or sympathetic countries to obtain humanitarian aid?

Continuing to fire missiles distracts from the need to address the crisis and focuses on the military conflict.

The UN are powerless as we can see. The Arab league are in cahoots with the Americans. The only way this will be solved is if Israel is threatend by another powerful country. I will repeat it agin for you - The reason Hamas is firing rockets is due to Gaza being slowly strangled by the Israelis, they are stopping all supplys from getting in, do you think they are going to sit back and let the Gazanz starve.

Continuing to fire missiles distracts from the need to address the crisis and focuses on the military conflict.

Maybe you should suggest that to your Israeli friends currently using chemical weapons in Gaza.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by chaos23

The UN are powerless as we can see. The Arab league are in cahoots with the Americans. The only way this will be solved is if Israel is threatend by another powerful country. I will repeat it agin for you - The reason Hamas is firing rockets is due to Gaza being slowly strangled by the Israelis, they are stopping all supplys from getting in, do you think they are going to sit back and let the Gazanz starve.

Continuing to fire missiles distracts from the need to address the crisis and focuses on the military conflict.

Maybe you should suggest that to your Israeli friends currently using chemical weapons in Gaza.

Interesting that your solution is a military one.

Sadly, I doubt whether the people in Gaza will have a chance to starve. It seems more likely that many innocent, non-militant people will die from the air strikes and from the Israeli invasion.

One way or another the rocket firing into Israel will be stopped.

To keep firing rockets into Israel merely prolongs the Israeli military response and kills more Palestinians.

[chaos23]

Originally Posted by ntluser

Interesting that your solution is a military one.

Sadly, I doubt whether the people in Gaza will have a chance to starve. It seems more likely that many innocent, non-militant people will die from the air strikes and from the Israeli invasion.

One way or another the rocket firing into Israel will be stopped.

To keep firing rockets into Israel merely prolongs the Israeli military response and kills more Palestinians.

Interesting to see you convieniently ignore that Israel is using Chemical Weapons in Gaza. You must be deluded if you think this action is going to stop rockets being fired into Israel. I suspect the rockets will increase, i doubt they will be coming from Gaza though.

Originally Posted by Maribel

What's the nationality of the author Dina Kraft? Is there anything non-jewish published by Dina?

What evidence does Dina give of the smuggled rockets? Ziltso!

Dina is the mounthpiece of IDF....Dina has been for years. The NY times had to apologize once or twice for Dina's porkies....

And the other two links in that post?

Oh, and these (amongst many others)?
Detroit Free Press
Guardian
BBC

And obviously, this source is extremely biased - a Chinese newspaper quoting a Hamas source ChinaPost December 30th 2008
"Early Tuesday, Hamas released a statement saying its squads had fired 43 homemade rockets, 17 longer-range Grads and six mortar shells at Israel. Other militant groups also fired rockets at Israel. "

PressTV
"The resistance fighters have fired at least 40 Qassam and Grad rockets into southern Israel as the military intensifies the ground incursion into the costal sliver"

And Reuters November 14th 2008
"A Hamas statement said its fighters had shot five 1960s-era Soviet-made Grad rockets at an Israeli town"

I suppose Hamas could be lying about the rockets they are using.......

[Sir John Luke]

Originally Posted by chaos23

Interesting to see you convieniently ignore that Israel is using Chemical Weapons in Gaza. .

As usual - source please?

Originally Posted by chaos23

The UN are powerless as we can see. The Arab league are in cahoots with the Americans. The only way this will be solved is if Israel is threatend by another powerful country. I will repeat it agin for you - The reason Hamas is firing rockets is due to Gaza being slowly strangled by the Israelis, they are stopping all supplys from getting in, do you think they are going to sit back and let the Gazanz starve.

Continuing to fire missiles distracts from the need to address the crisis and focuses on the military conflict.

Maybe you should suggest that to your Israeli friends currently using chemical weapons in Gaza.

chaos, can you back up the "chemical weapons" statement, besides this photo from sott.net?

[Uncle Peter]

The use of WP (as in the photo) is contentious. It can merely be used to mark a ground target for artillery or as an incendiary weapon. Given the size of that particular device I'd say it is merely a marker.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by chaos23

Interesting to see you convieniently ignore that Israel is using Chemical Weapons in Gaza. You must be deluded if you think this action is going to stop rockets being fired into Israel. I suspect the rockets will increase, i doubt they will be coming from Gaza though.

I'm not ignoring your comments about chemical weapon usage in Gaza. I simply just don't have any independently verified evidence that they are being used. I'm fairly sure that's true for anybody living outside the Middle East.

Lots of things happen in the Middle East that the rest of the world is unaware of.

I'm just one of the millions of people round the world who want the killing of Palestinians and Israelis to stop.

From the TV reports I can see the conditions of hardship that the Palestinians are living under.The lack of basic amenities like electricity, running water, food, medicine, housing etc all contribute to put an unbearable burden on the people living there.I can only imagine how hard daily life is and how worrying & stressful the situation must be.

But the firing of missiles does not improve matters. It simply makes them worse.

As things stand, the bitterness between Palestinians & Israelis is such that they will be locked into a lifelong struggle with generations of future children on both sides being committed to the war effort. Money and resources which could be used to rebuild life in Gaza will be wasted on weapons.

Someone, somewhere has to have a vision of peace and be brave enough to say that enough is enough ; that war is not the best way to resolve differences, but sadly I think a lot of people are going to die unneccessarily before that happens.

Let's hope a mutually peaceful solution comes sooner rather than later.

[Maribel]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

And the other two links in that post?

Oh, and these (amongst many others)?
Detroit Free Press
Guardian
BBC

And obviously, this source is extremely biased - a Chinese newspaper quoting a Hamas source ChinaPost December 30th 2008
"Early Tuesday, Hamas released a statement saying its squads had fired 43 homemade rockets, 17 longer-range Grads and six mortar shells at Israel. Other militant groups also fired rockets at Israel. "

And Reuters November 14th 2008
"A Hamas statement said its fighters had shot five 1960s-era Soviet-made Grad rockets at an Israeli town"

I suppose Hamas could be lying about the rockets they are using.......

I looked at your globalsecurity link but I lost focus, I started shopping there, they have some lovely items, like this or how could I live without a Credit Card Companion but I was disapointed , as I could not pass the security test.

Seriously, your refs are fine ( The Grauniad link is wrong).

There is no evidence that Hamas smuggled rockets using tunnels, but plenty of speculation. If they did, why didn't they get better ones so they could nuke Dimona? The Egyptians must have better rockets than Grad Katyushas...

[chaos23]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

chaos, can you back up the "chemical weapons" statement, besides this photo from sott.net?

Israel have used Chemical weapons against Hezbollah in 2006, so they dont mind using this stuff. There is no link as yet, this was a repot on PRESS TV. But, they have found traces of depleted Uranium in some Gazan residents who have been injured by the ammunition.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...onid=351020202

It sure looks like Phosporus - dont you think?

White phosphorus is an indiscriminate killer that ignites once it is exposed to oxygen, producing such heat that it bursts into a yellow flame and produces a dense white smoke.

It causes painful burn injuries to exposed human flesh, as discovered by Lebanon's Children at the hands of Israeli Phosphorus Bombs in 2006.

White Phosphorus is considered a chemical weapon by most governments around the world. Its use in civilian areas is banned by the Geneva Treaty of 1980. The United Nations considers such weapons illegal.