Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by Virgin Salesman

Yeah there is more than just concern about customers...........

My job security and any negative press reports about direct sales in general if this gets out.

Looks like you just shot yourself in the foot then

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Virgin Salesman

.

There will be only one party looking daft and it wont be me!

Word of warning, criminals dont like a grass.... I'd watch out incase someone sees what you're posting

By the way can you sell me 700 virgins.....

[Sir_JGP]

I really do not see what the problem is with reporting them to your manager, VM have a
obligation to their customers and as such so do you, you have info that should be reported.

I say talk to your manager ASAP.

[v0id]

How did do you find out whether your collegues may or may not have a criminal record anyway? :/

[Frank]

Originally Posted by webcrawler2050

Can a mod lock this thread now before it gets a little out of hand and we keep going round and round, saying the same things.

Nope, anyone is free to post (or not post) whatever they want as long as it does not breach the site's T&Cs. When a post does, the poster will be warned or receive an infraction. If they thread gets out of hand we will close it, until then it stays open.

The original poster has made his points, and others have made counter-points and pointed out information that seems to contradict Virgin Salesman's arguments, which is fine. That does not mean that Virgin Salesman does not have legitimate concerns. If he wants to air his concerns in public and exercise his free speech rather than speak to VM HR (pfft who could blame him) or utilise other internal VM processes (that apparently he has no confidence in), then so be it.

[sollp]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

i could understand why those ( not including sky ) would CRB engineers who may have to enter property to fix things in an emergency even if an adult wasn't there and or fixing equipment in an elderly persons home

but sky and virgin as far as i am aware ( as i dont work for them ( should see my posts on sky 1 lol ) ) require an adult or at least some one over 16 to be present for the engineers to carry out any work inside a property

and i would hope they require adults to be present to sign contracts and fill out direct debits

so no need to do crb and they may even find themselves on the end of a human rights case if they turned down some one for a job based on some of te stuff a CRB could throw up as some of the stuff that can be in there is only usable if you are doing certain prescribed jobs

You have to make sure before entering a property that the person is over 18yrs old. If you feel that there could be a problem you could get someone else to accompany you into property or you just don't enter it.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by sollp

You have to make sure before entering a property that the person is over 18yrs old. If you feel that there could be a problem you could get someone else to accompany you into property or you just don't enter it.

sounds about right to me though i got a vague memory of my one nephew letting the sky man in at 16 though i had phoned to say i would be there very soon as i was stuck in the same traffic jam as the sky man but he was a bit ahead of me

but 18 does sound right

and negates the even slight need to have a CRB

[Frank]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

and negates the even slight need to have a CRB

Okay so I think we have established that is not the right way to go, so what do you think VM should be doing to manage the risks associated with having people with unspent criminal records in your house and looking at your personal information?

One possibility could be tightening up hiring policies for certain types of jobs to bring them in line with other large companies.

Virgin Salesman, what do you think? You're the one who posted on here and I am kinda confused as to what you hoped to gain from posting in the first place. Any colleagues with criminal records fired? Tigher policies? Your moment in the spotlight if some local media maybe writes a story when you resign?

[Virgin Salesman]

Originally Posted by Frank

Okay so I think we have established that is not the right way to go, so what do you think VM should be doing to manage the risks associated with having people with unspent criminal records in your house and looking at your personal information?

One possibility could be tightening up hiring policies for certain types of jobs to bring them in line with other large companies.

Virgin Salesman, what do you think? You're the one who posted on here and I am kinda confused as to what you hoped to gain from posting in the first place. Any colleagues with criminal records fired? Tigher policies? Your moment in the spotlight if some local media maybe writes a story when you resign?

Frank

I have kept a low profile since my original points were raised. This has created more attention than I originally thought it would.

What I would like to see is VM change their current recruitment policy and CRB check all new F2F recruits.

I would also like to see all our current face to face staff complete a CRB, VM could then make a decision on whether they would continue to allow these people to sell (based on how severe (or not) the check was on the individual).

VM wants to be a big player in the market but with our current recruitment policies we are only leaving ourselves open to abuse from customers and the media regarding the calibre of our staff.

Direct sales already has a bad reputation, I would like to see it cleaned up - other companies (including Sky - working in the same market) are doing their bit so why shouldnt we? Lets make F2F selling a better place with better people who are not just looking after their own interests.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Virgin Salesman

Direct sales already has a bad reputation,

A CRB check is not going to change that. I doubt that every dodgy direct sales agent has a criminal record

Stopping handwritten contracts might help. No more 'He said/She said'

[hokkers999]

Originally Posted by Virgin Salesman

VM direct sales staff have access to bank/credit card details, are in a customers home and potentially around kids etc.

The question is.........should these salespeople be checked?

I personally think the answer is yes.

I have never had a criminal conviction for anything - why should i be working alongside people who have convictions?

It is about protecting customers and the vulnerable.

Just to let you guys know i am going to resign and inform the press if Virgin do not address this.

This forum has allowed me to air my views but if a company is not willing to look after its customers interests do i really want to work there anyway. I will go and work in utilities (gas and electric) at least there i will be able to hold my head up high and say to customers "I have been background checked" to give them confidence in who I really am!

Bye -bye then. People make mistakes in life, pay for them and then move on. Seems like you think they should be branded for life "I made a mistake in the past". Hope you never make a mistake, haven't got a speeding ticket have you? A parking ticket?. Naughty criminal, better resign immediately. Oh hang on, you're going anyway.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:17 ----------

Originally Posted by Virgin Salesman

They are not spent - they are unspent, dont want to speak to HR.

sorry, but have you heard the phrase "put up or shut up?". If you are *that* concerned then why on earth *wouldn't* you speak to HR. It's your duty man, so get on with it. In fact if you believe what you are saying is true and you don't report it, then if anything does happen you will be liable for the results.

[Virgin Salesman]

Originally Posted by hokkers999

Bye -bye then. People make mistakes in life, pay for them and then move on. Seems like you think they should be branded for life "I made a mistake in the past". Hope you never make a mistake, haven't got a speeding ticket have you? A parking ticket?. Naughty criminal, better resign immediately. Oh hang on, you're going anyway.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:17 ----------



sorry, but have you heard the phrase "put up or shut up?". If you are *that* concerned then why on earth *wouldn't* you speak to HR. It's your duty man, so get on with it. In fact if you believe what you are saying is true and you don't report it, then if anything does happen you will be liable for the results.

Yes I have had speeding/parking fines in the past but haven't we all?

A CRB includes motoring offences but would not be taken into consideration when a company decides if someone is fit to knock on a potential customers door. If however the person was convicted of a sex or fraud offence then surely they shouldnt be allowed to do be in a customers home?

I dont know why I am debating this point - its clear, if you have been convicted of theft, sex offences, fraud or violence with an unspent conviction then surely you should not be knocking doors?

What is happening here - I will say it again - we have a duty of care to ensure all customers are protected against individuals that could cause harm based on their previous unspent convictions!!!

[Frank]

Originally Posted by Virgin Salesman

What I would like to see is VM change their current recruitment policy and CRB check all new F2F recruits.

I would also like to see all our current face to face staff complete a CRB, VM could then make a decision on whether they would continue to allow these people to sell (based on how severe (or not) the check was on the individual).

Okay well I thought people had pointed out that the CRB is not for that kind of of purpose, and is more aimed at checking people that have contact with children?

If you actually are aiming for that, then I would suggest taking Russ up on his offer as that is probably the best chance you have of seeing that happen. Or perhaps raising this issue with VM's compliance department by pointing out what kind of problems this is having in specific detail so they are able to do something about it. They need enough detail to be able to justify action.

Originally Posted by Virgin Salesman

VM wants to be a big player in the market but with our current recruitment policies we are only leaving ourselves open to abuse from customers and the media regarding the calibre of our staff.

At the end of the day, VM is pretty much the same company as ntl Telewest was, just with a nice consumer-friendly rebranding using a brand that someone else built up. If you don't get any joy after raising the issue through either of methods above, I would suggest jumping ship to a company that cares more about its reputation, the quality of it's direct sales channel and the staff that work in that channel. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Virgin Salesman

Direct sales already has a bad reputation, I would like to see it cleaned up - other companies (including Sky - working in the same market) are doing their bit so why shouldnt we? Lets make F2F selling a better place with better people who are not just looking after their own interests.

Well other companies are managed by other execs that perhaps think differently and have different priorities. We've been through various CEOs since this site was around in its various incarnations, and the current CEO seems to be a bit of a p**k to be honest. That said, I doubt that something like you are proposing is going to be given the priority it deserves, so see my suggestions above. Also, you say that Sky is better, but the grass is not always greener. How sure are you that Sky is actually "doing their bit", or is it just they better manage public perception?

Also consider that from a management perspective, they are trying to run the company under a large debt load (usual these days ), and there is a balancing act between costs and profits. In other words, if the amount being spent on vetting new employees is serving their needs well enough (complaints about employees with criminal records are stastically acceptable) then why would they spend more money of further vetting the employees?

There are two schools of management imho.

Management that truly values and embraces customers and make the organisation customer focussed as much as possible - while controlling costs - in order to make a profit. This group of management would embrace you, sit down and talk about how they could improve their recruitment process, and actually seriously believe that they have a duty to their customers to protect them from people with criminal records. They would look to industry best practise in terms of recruitment policies, and take strides to change their policy so that people with convictions are screened out, however they go about doing it. Perhaps it would include CRB for F2F sales, perhaps not. Regardless, it's not a small change you are looking for in a company of VM's size.

The other group of management doesn't care about customers, they are more interested in growing sales through snazzy product launches overlooking Buckingham palace and reducing costs through traffic shaping internet service . Old school, non Cluetrain outlook. They would look at the statistics of complaints under the current structure and conclude that even though the VM sales force includes people with unspent convictions, the effect of this is acceptable, and would therefore do nothing.

Sadly the direction comes from the top. 1 guess which group Berkett is in.

---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

Originally Posted by hokkers999

If you are *that* concerned then why on earth *wouldn't* you speak to HR. It's your duty man, so get on with it.

Come on, let's face it, HR are useless in situations such as this. Speaking to HR about something like this is not going to help. What are they going to do about it?

Originally Posted by hokkers999

In fact if you believe what you are saying is true and you don't report it, then if anything does happen you will be liable for the results.

Erm how did you figure that?

[Virgin Salesman]

Frank

How sure can I be that Sky is actually "doing their bit", or is it just they better manage public perception?

100% - I know friends that work there - they are unable to work F2F with customers until their checks are completed and come back good. 1 guy I know had to wait 5 weeks to get his check returned.

This also goes for all utility companies - all direct sales are checked via disclosure scotland.

Frank - I would like to thank you at this point for taking a common sense approach to this matter and probably calming things a bit! Your advice has helped me a lot. This issue has caused me a lot of stress since posting and i thought long and hard before posting. The response I have received from some individuals on the forum has shocked me greatly. I will think again before i open my mouth (or my laptop) in the future.

[hokkers999]

Originally Posted by Frank

[snip]
Come on, let's face it, HR are useless in situations such as this. Speaking to HR about something like this is not going to help. What are they going to do about it?

Erm how did you figure that?

Why is HR useless? Put it in writing and they *have* to respond. They can't ignore it. they have certain legal duties to fulfil.

As for "how did I figure that out". Let's say you have found out that I intended to go and kill someone and you made no attempt to stop me. What does that make you? - an accomplice after the fact. Same here. If the Salesman has genuine info and does nothing about it and a "tragedy"; does happen then he is just as responsible as the perpetrator. Over and above that he has a moral obligation to "do the right thing".