Changing VM's modem with a router

[Cheekykid]

Am thinking of changing the modem with a Belkin wireless cable router. Since it has the modem built in all I need to do is put the mac of the virgin media modem into the router and it will work?

[SteevieNiteHeat]

Originally Posted by Cheekykid

Am thinking of changing the modem with a Belkin wireless cable router. Since it has the modem built in all I need to do is put the mac of the virgin media modem into the router and it will work?

No because the router you are thinking about getting is an ADSL modem+router, the sort that plugs into your phone line, and will not work with virgin cable broadband!

You will need a cable router, and your existing VM cable modem will plug into this!

[D.Casey]

Can you get a modem + router (all in one) that will work on a virgin connection? or is it always best to use the vm modem & a seperate router?

[gandalf_grey91]

The nasty little modem can be replaced with a DOCSIS 2.0 (or better) modem, I think Linksys do a nice one (no router included) and there is version of the netgear dg834 with a cable modem built-in (can't remember model number), but you will have to purchase from USA. They can be found on US ebay (or new from retailer) from about $20 (for linksys) but postage will be more than that.

[popper]

Originally Posted by D.Casey

Can you get a modem + router (all in one) that will work on a virgin connection? or is it always best to use the vm modem & a seperate router?

yes you can , however Virgin media dont allow you to use it as its against the VM T&C contract.

until that restrictive VM contract clause is removed ,you will always need to use the VM supplyed cable modem as your end point, ANYTHING that plugs into its USB/Ethernet LAN connection is YOUR LAN to do with as you please.

cable<===>WAN-VM-CM/VM-STB-LAN<===>(wireless)router or master-PC connected by USB or ethernet.

its quite simple really anything after the CM LAN is yours to do with as you please.

---------- Post added at 01:59 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------

Originally Posted by gandalf_grey91

The nasty little modem can be replaced with a DOCSIS 2.0 (or better) modem, I think Linksys do a nice one (no router included) and there is version of the netgear dg834 with a cable modem built-in (can't remember model number), but you will have to purchase from USA. They can be found on US ebay (or new from retailer) from about $20 (for linksys) but postage will be more than that.

NOT unless you want to take them to court (Small Claims should be enough if you use your brain and do the research see all the bank charges SCs as a basis and begining to your learning curve ) and challenge this restrictive T&C to get back the same rights all the other EU and US consumers already have, that being the ability to purchase and legally connect any 3rd party docsis kit to the UK cable, and remove the forced ongoing HW rental costs , you still need a valid subscription OC at whatever rate the court (ONLY if you ask them to set a rate to pay) might consider a fair price.....

as for "nasty little modem" the 255 serves its docsis2 purpose perfectly fine,so its not nasty in that sense.

OC having the ability to replace it with a better speced official 3rd party DS2 and later DS3 CM/STB thats got for instance a built in wireless 11g/n router and DVB-C TS streaming capabilitys to and from your whole LAN would be a good thing but we dont have that option until a YOU take them to court and get a ruling in favour of the UK cable consumer passed.

lets hope the new DS3 kit becomes available and VM finally see fit to buy in some good speced DS3 CM, 1gig 4 port, internal HD with all the firmware/middleware trimmings to allow for long term new transport streaming to any part of your LAN useing a simple internal web interface for instance.

they might make a very nice bit of extra cash in the longer term if they didnt keep buying in the cheapest end of life and restrictive off the shelf DS kit all the time, but thats VM executives for you , no innovative long term thought to providing new services that the end users might pay for on an ongoing basis

[gandalf_grey91]

Hey, nobody asked if it was legal, just if it could be done.

According to a VM tech, they encourage the use of bridged connections, so bascially they want you to buy a router (without modem built-in) and feed in ethernet from their modem. Which is exactly what you have written.

In my opinion, the VM-supplied 255 modem is like living off bread and water, it'll keep you alive but there are tastier meals.

[Kymmy]

Not really a case of being legal or illegal but just against the terms of the contract, which means that VM can terminate the connection at any time especially if there's a problem and they query the modem.

As for the comment about the 255 modem and bread/water you'll find that it's probably the same chipset as used by a lot of combined units so not really a difference, it's though VM's choice to keep the modem as thier own supplied units and hence supported by themselves..

Originally Posted by gandalf_grey91

Hey, nobody asked if it was legal, just if it could be done.

According to a VM tech, they encourage the use of bridged connections, so bascially they want you to buy a router (without modem built-in) and feed in ethernet from their modem. Which is exactly what you have written.

In my opinion, the VM-supplied 255 modem is like living off bread and water, it'll keep you alive but there are tastier meals.

If you use a device that Virgin have not supplied for the purpose and it causes feedback on the network ( this has happened with wireless routers ) and it is traced back to your connection they can terminate your connection and possibly have you blacklisted.

The Ambit 255modem is 20mb capable on the Virgin network so any problems are either on the network or after the modem at your end.

[Ignitionnet]

If you really want to use your own kit make sure that you can change the MAC addresses on it, then change its' HFC MAC address to match that of your current VM supplied cable modem and it should work fine.

As previously mentioned against T+Cs but perfectly doable.

The wireless router ingress sounds more like unterminated cable points sucking up the wireless signal. An eMTA or similar combined cable modem and home gateway will be absolutely fine to use on the VM network, chances are it'll be a better quality piece of kit than the supplied modem.

Agan just be aware that VM don't like you supplying your own equipment

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by gandalf_grey91

The nasty little modem can be replaced with a DOCSIS 2.0 (or better) modem, I think Linksys do a nice one (no router included) and there is version of the netgear dg834 with a cable modem built-in (can't remember model number), but you will have to purchase from USA. They can be found on US ebay (or new from retailer) from about $20 (for linksys) but postage will be more than that.

Attaching non-vm supplied equipment to the cable network is against Virgin's Ts&Cs, so we do not allow discussion here.


It's also worth noting that Virgin would refuse to register the MAC address of these combined routers/modems so they won't work anyway.

[popper]

i seem to remember that at least one of the old companies were said to have authorised an official combined router/CM perhaps it was the business section but i cant remember exactly, so VM could allow you that option if they still supply them.

all current DS2 cable kit as already stated is using well tryed and tested chipsets/SOC so its just a lack of will on VMs part to authorise a select few DS vendors 3d party kit.

and they could once again sell you DS kit outright as NTL or was it TW did once many moons ago and make a new profit on it today.

as a side note , im pritty sure the Ambit 255 modem CPU/SOC is full E-DS2 36Mbit ? sustained throughput capable

---------- Post added at 01:58 ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 ----------

a home gateway would be nice IF VM DIDNT cripple it by not including the generic firmware/middleware driver set to run the ports as i see fit, think Liberate such a wonderful and fast STB middleware and carousel backend for the 21st century NOT.....

iv not mentioned the antiquated VM liberate middleware for a while stuart so i have to find a way to drop it in there sometimes to remind people

all i really want is direct access to my payed for transport streams so i can multicast them as i please to anything i care to plug into my (wireless)LAN, decode it and play it back when and were i like.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by popper

i seem to remember that at least one of the old companies were said to have authorised an official combined router/CM perhaps it was the business section but i cant remember exactly, so VM could allow you that option if they still supply them.

It would be the business side of VM. Residential services have only ever been wired modems

all current DS2 cable kit as already stated is using well tryed and tested chipsets/SOC so its just a lack of will on VMs part to authorise a select few DS vendors 3d party kit.

and they could once again sell you DS kit outright as NTL or was it TW did once many moons ago and make a new profit on it today.

It was ntl. And yes they could do, but then who would you contact for support, as I doubt Virgin would be willing to support them? Who would replace if it failed?

From my own experience of dealing with it, the biggest problem with the 'bought' modems is that they became a stone around a customer's neck. They wouldn't do the faster speeds so needed to be replaced, but those customers that bought them still wanted to be able to use them (Which is understandable). However as they couldn't do the advertised speed, and if the customer didn't want to ditch a modem they had paid for, then they wanted a reduction on the service charge!

[popper]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

It would be the business side of VM. Residential services have only ever been wired modems


It was ntl. And yes they could do, but then who would you contact for support, as I doubt Virgin would be willing to support them? Who would replace if it failed?

From my own experience of dealing with it, the biggest problem with the 'bought' modems is that they became a stone around a customer's neck. They wouldn't do the faster speeds so needed to be replaced, but those customers that bought them still wanted to be able to use them (Which is understandable). However as they couldn't do the advertised speed, and if the customer didn't want to ditch a modem they had paid for, then they wanted a reduction on the service charge!

well lets look at it from a VM profit POV, the old sold kit was not using todays generic tryed and tested DS2 chipsets/SOC , hence the old max speed problem.

anything they might authorise today would be using this cheap yet capable DS2 tryed and tested chipsets/SOC so not a problem there.

the UK standard 12 months return to vendor would apply i guess, or far more logical VM could be the agent or the supplyer and charge the current going rate for callout and swap so making profit there.

i can somewhat sympathise with the wanting to use the payed for kit, however this is way outside the warrantee and they must know by now that its not capable of current full VM speeds, what was it ,i forget, something like 4-6 Mbit i seem to remember.

using it as a reduced rate is still better than not at all + a rented CM to boot.

so realisticly, Vm could offer to do a hybrid deal, rent the 255 and also offer them the ability to use the payed for kit on say the 4Mbit package at a reduced rate, so they both win.

VM get 1 rented 255 and and say a 10/20Mbit fee, PLUS say a 2Mbit fee for leting them use their payed for kit at whatever max its capable of after its put on a 10Mbit package for instance assumign the old 4Mbit doesnt exist in the current billing system anymore OC, again it comes down to assuming the new accounts package remember, can actually allow for this new future custom package billing month on month and not get confused about more than one single CM on the account

if we move on to today and think about these select tryed and tested DS2 chipsets/SOC 3rd party buy it and remove the rental charge packages, anything goes as it can do any speed upto the current 20Mbit/768Kbit and its return to vendor how ever that provides the required one off profit margin and ongoing monthly service rental etc.

before anything was put in place and made official the execs and techs should come on here and ask what people might like to do and pay for so we can find the best agreed current kit for the potential official long term (2/3 years outright then look again) endorse.

an official 11n with 1gig-4 port router might be a nice thing to endorse for the longer term if VM arnt ready to poke 3rd partys vendors to produce an official VM endorsed DS2/3 wired 1 gig router/CM/STB that you can buy or rent as you see fit and even have it added to your monthly bill in 2 or 3 payments with an extra % on top to allow for installments so people dont have to lay it out all i none go.

im not against VM making a valid and reasonable profit, im against stagnation and being PRed to death with STMed connections and related problems that have been frankly crap this last week, i couldnt even refresh these pages at STM times of the day, even though i wasnt STMed as iv done no more than 500Meg every day all this week but thats for another thread.

[Kymmy]

Currently the only combined router/modem that VM supply is the 2050 and that is only to the ntltelewest business accounts, it has built in NAT but no way to port forward, also if you request sticky IP's then the modem goes purely into non-nat mode and acts just like a 255.

It'll be interesting to see what option they give when DOCSIS3 is used.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by popper

anything they might authorise today would be using this cheap yet capable DS2 tryed and tested chipsets/SOC so not a problem there.

Yes the DS2 kit is fine for the current services. But you would either have to pay again for DS3 kit if you upgraded to 50Mb or have the same argument all over again.

the UK standard 12 months return to vendor would apply i guess, or far more logical VM could be the agent or the supplyer and charge the current going rate for callout and swap so making profit there.

That would be good in theory, but can you imagine the number of times people would go 'I can get a free modem from Sky if I change, so I want a free one from you'? Happens enough as it is at the moment for wiring visits

so realisticly, Vm could offer to do a hybrid deal, rent the 255 and also offer them the ability to use the payed for kit on say the 4Mbit package at a reduced rate, so they both win.

VM get 1 rented 255 and and say a 10/20Mbit fee, PLUS say a 2Mbit fee for leting them use their payed for kit at whatever max its capable of after its put on a 10Mbit package for instance assumign the old 4Mbit doesnt exist in the current billing system anymore OC, again it comes down to assuming the new accounts package remember, can actually allow for this new future custom package billing month on month and not get confused about more than one single CM on the account

Again with the multiple modems . As I have said before, I'm not against the idea in itself, I just think Virgin currently have bigger fish to fry. Also you are assuming that Virgin woud reduce the cost of the second connection because you are using your own kit? Why? The only ISP I have found that offers multiple connections 'A Roomate Account' in the US charges full price for both connections.

if we move on to today and think about these select tryed and tested DS2 chipsets/SOC 3rd party buy it and remove the rental charge packages, anything goes as it can do any speed upto the current 20Mbit/768Kbit and its return to vendor how ever that provides the required one off profit margin and ongoing monthly service rental etc

What makes you think the rental charge would change? If you look at the ADSL market, no mainstream ISP reduces the rental charge if you don't use their kit (tho I think there are a few bare wires ISPs that charge you extra if they supply kit, but that's not the same thing)

before anything was put in place and made official the execs and techs should come on here and ask what people might like to do and pay for so we can find the best agreed current kit for the potential official long term (2/3 years outright then look again) endorse.

With all due respect, this forum is hardly representative of VM's general customer base. People on here are fairly technically aware, so the concept of 3rd party kit is fine.

Most of Virgin's customers never have the need or desire to play about the swapping a modem. Even for the people on here, it is more of a 'because I want to' rather than a need to do it.

an official 11n with 1gig-4 port router might be a nice thing to endorse for the longer term if VM arnt ready to poke 3rd partys vendors to produce an official VM endorsed DS2/3 wired 1 gig router/CM/STB that you can buy or rent as you see fit and even have it added to your monthly bill in 2 or 3 payments with an extra % on top to allow for installments so people dont have to lay it out all i none go.

Again, you premise is based on the idea that Virgin would reduce the rental if you purchased your own equipment. I don't see any reason why they should, so you would end up having to pay more to purchase a modem or modem-router, and I doubt many people would actually do that