Virginmedia Are Broadband Scammers

Originally Posted by stairpotato

Well when the internet starts running dry I will forgive Virgin for STM.

Until then - I'll agree with the OP that STM is a scam, designed to enable Virgin to continue to sell higher bandwidth rates than it could otherwise reliably supply.

I think you will find that the internet is running dry, as BT are demonstrating linky

btw, I agree that ISPs shouldn't sell what they can't deliver, or that they should show the limits that are in force in a prominent way - but marketing doesn't work that way unfortunately; they (all ISPs) just highlight the benefits, not the "features".

[dev]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

I think you will find that the internet is running dry, as BT are demonstrating linky

btw, I agree that ISPs shouldn't sell what they can't deliver, or that they should show the limits that are in force in a prominent way - but marketing doesn't work that way unfortunately; they (all ISPs) just highlight the benefits, not the "features".

not selling what they can't deliver would be a 1:1 contention ratio right? problem is, the cost for a 20mbit dedicated feed would be slightly more than the current price

Which is why I put the caveat in, re limits.

I work in IT/Comms - I know the business prices for dedicated lines.

There's an echo in here.....

Where?








Where?

[stairpotato]

Originally Posted by dev

not selling what they can't deliver would be a 1:1 contention ratio right?

erm no.

virgin perhaps could reliably deliver a 10meg, 4meg, 2 meg service, but they clearly can't deliver 20,10,4 - or they wouldnt need stm.

[Mad Ad]

Originally Posted by Sirius

No i said that because he said this


That's why or had you conveniently missed that bit ?????

If you are going to have a go at least do your homework first

Let me make a point here. I am a heavy downloader and i don't like STM at all, What i hate more are those that download 24/7 because they can. It has been stated by buggerlugs that he will download as much as he can and even if he does not want it or needs he will do that.

Now that is just taking the **** and gives VM every reason they need to put STM on there network. If numpty's did not download everything just because they can and then admit they did not need to and are doing it just to make a point, Then how can we try to get VM to remove the STM, We cannot while numpty's do that.

VM are about to start 50 meg according to certain webforums, They have already said they are going to STM it, Wonder if they did that because there are those that download just to say they can ???????

No you are wrong, I didnt miss that, downloading rubbish he doesnt use is still downloading what he wants, it just doesn't fit in with your outlook so you'd rather suggest I missed it, so you can repeat what you already said.

And its a fair point, I just dont agree. The reason they put STM on was to resell our peak time bandwidth to 3 other people, without having to spend 1p on hardware capacity.

Its all about the peaktime numbers at the time of day thats been traditionally oversubscribed since the introduction of 0800 dialup. Its nothing new, just VM has chosen to do it in an anti customer way, keeping it quiet from all advertising and pointing the finger for its introduction at a subset of users, rather than themselves for choosing that route to increase the precious peaktime bandwidth.

Nothing to do with one user with a gripe. Let him carry on and put the blame to VM for creating that kind of attitude in someone in the first place.

[MOD]Rep Rule:Members are not permitted to discuss reps received or given in threads, reputation is a private matter, not for public discussion. [/MOD]

Actually the water analogy doesn't stand up if only for the fact that water is not a utility...it's an absolute necessity for life where as painful as it might appear we do not NEED the internet to maintain life and throttling it won't kill anyone.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

I think you will find that the internet is running dry, as BT are demonstrating linky

Nothing to do with the internet that's just down to the price BT Retail pay BT Wholesale for bandwidth on the BT Central Plus product. No shortage of bandwidth on the actual internet, just aggregating bandwidth from thousands of exchanges and presenting it to the internet isn't cheap

---------- Post added at 08:34 ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 ----------

Originally Posted by dev

not selling what they can't deliver would be a 1:1 contention ratio right? problem is, the cost for a 20mbit dedicated feed would be slightly more than the current price

There's a lot of difference between an actual 1:1 ratio and an apparent one. You just need to ensure that the pipes never saturate at peak times, how much they can be overbooked before this happens is arbitrary but certainly won't be a 1:1 ratio.

[Rewrew]

I think the point that I was trying to make has been lost, maybe because I didn't make it that well. There is a also tendency to assume that because I complained about one aspect of the OP's behaviour that I disagreed with all the points he was making.

That VM should deliver what they offer is not in dispute. Perhaps VM could be clearer what "unlimited" really means. Maybe their traffic management techniques are unsubtle. In the main most users get the service they expect and are not affected by traffic management. It is the heavy users that tend to complain on here. Again I do not have an issue with heavy users per se. If you like to download 5Gb Linux distributions day after day then you have that right (but I also feel that most heavy downloaders are sufficiently savvy to schedule such downloads at times that don't inconvenience others - indeed probably the same times that they are not actively using their PCs).

My concern was the unchallenged statement that it is reasonable to consume an item (bandwidth in this case) that is not wanted. How can it ever be right to deliberately consume an item in limited supply that you neither need or want simply for the sake of it? It will have an impact on the rest of the users of that item and there will be no benefit to the person consuming for the sake of it.

And in case "limited supply" is challenged I refer to the infrastructure of the net (at all scales) which is always going to be limited in capacity to some extent albeit that technology continues to increase the capacity and demand as time progresses.

[SteevieNiteHeat]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Actually the water analogy doesn't stand up if only for the fact that water is not a utility...it's an absolute necessity for life where as painful as it might appear we do not NEED the internet to maintain life and throttling it won't kill anyone.

SNIP

Sorry to be pedantic and all that, but you are wrong, water IS a utility, think about when people say 'utility bills' which include gas, electricity AND water

sorry I don wanna get into the arguement, just wanted to point out something

[iFrankie]

I love virgin media

[joglynne]

......

[CountZer0]

Originally Posted by SteevieNiteHeat

SNIP

Sorry to be pedantic and all that, but you are wrong, water IS a utility, think about when people say 'utility bills' which include gas, electricity AND water

sorry I don wanna get into the arguement, just wanted to point out something

You're right but the water company are not allowed to turn off your water or stop removing your sewage.

Originally Posted by CountZer0

You're right but the water company are not allowed to turn off your water or stop removing your sewage.

Unless you are on a business premises; from the Water Industry Act 1999, the following premises are exempt from disconnection -
"private dwelling houses, caravans, houseboats, houses in multiple occupation and sheltered accommodation (where these are someone's main home) and children's homes, residential care homes, prisons and detention centres, schools, premises used for children's daycare, institutions of further and higher education, hospitals, nursing homes, GPs' and dentists' surgeries (including surgeries set up as primary care pilot schemes) and premises occupied by the emergency services."

But the other utiilities are still allowed to disconnect you (electricity and gas).