Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by Tarquin L-Smythe

What about library's most have terminals these days and all are shared,Ideal place for inphomative flyers.

that's another of the oft asked, never answered questions BT have dodged. Hopefully librarians can arrange some overall block once they get informed. Library content filters can be a bit quirky from what I hear.

[tarka]

just to confirm I am also with BT and visiting www.webwise.com only results in a PHP session cookie being set, nothing else at this time.

[Rchivist]

I'm working on a Wikipedia article for the BT Total Broadband page. If anyone is interested in collaboration, please let me know. I'm particularly interested in someone who is more familiar with Wiki, and who can also provide appropriate hyperlinks etc. to my text.

I've only ever done a few sentences on Wikipedia before, so all help, correction and advice appreciated. Be interesting to see if BT or Phorm remove it all like they did with the first Phorm/Webwise stuff that went up on Widipedia.

Please PM me if you want the text so far and can make suggestions edits - it's a work in progress.
And consider whether you want to stick something similar in to the Virgin Media or Carphone Warehouse/TalkTalk entries.

Over on BT forums, we are seeing more people posting new to the topic. Several of us are busy over on various forums doing ordinary peer support, but with co-ordinated sigs giving links for more information about Webwise.

[madslug]

Originally Posted by R Jones

that's another of the oft asked, never answered questions BT have dodged. Hopefully librarians can arrange some overall block once they get informed. Library content filters can be a bit quirky from what I hear.

While BT have stated that no commercial broadband connections will be intercepted, have either TalkTalk or VirginMedia made any similar claim?

It is to be hoped that internet cafes, schools and libraries will be free from any ISP hosted DPI systems. IF they want to use something like BlueCoat, that is up to them.

I have been dropping off leaflets at internet cafes and usually get some raised eyebrows. However, I prefer to talk to people I hand out leaflets to as there are still those who believe that they have 'nothing to hide' or that 'everything is already being spied upon' or that 'nothing we can do to stop it'.

My main concern is that the 'viral effect' is not happening with the petition. Somehow, everyone who signs the petition needs to be sufficiently worked up about it that they involve another 20 people in signing too. We are only 5 people away from having a connection to everyone in the UK. If every one of those 16,000 signatures could tell another 20 people, numbers will be up to 160k very quickly.

Maybe some of the visitors here who are into the advertising media can suggest ways of improving the privacy message?

[lucevans]

Originally Posted by madslug

I just wanted to bring this post back into clear sight as I suspect it may have got lost amid all the posts last night.

Even with very low security settings, the only cookie the webwise site offers me is a php session cookie. Surfing around the webwise site, it sniffs my ISP and tells me that my ISP has not yet enabled webwise.

Also, if I use the Google cache of the opt-in/out pages, trying to pick up either version of the cookie results in a 403 response from the server. This is the same as I have seen for a few months now.

If there is anyone here who still uses VM, BT or TT (or any of their subsidiaries) can they post whether or not they are also seeing cookies in the a.webwise.net domain?

These cookies are a bit odd because BT have always said that blocking cookies in the www.webwise.net domain will prevent the profiling.

Time for a bit of clarity from Webwise: which domain is used for the UID cookie?

Or, will it be like the 2006/7 trials where every ISP had a unique identifier?

When you think about it, if everyone has the same domain for the cookie, how will the OIX script know which ISP to pay after displaying the ads?

Sorry my post last night may have been a bit confusing: I actually went out of my way to see if I could get the webwise website to place a Phorm cookie on my system via my Virgin Media cable connection as follows:

I had to navigate through pages of badly-linked stuff on the site, but eventually got to the following page:

http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/in.html

where I clicked on the link called "Switch ON Webwise".

This dropped a cookie on my system called uid with the path /services and an expiry date of 4th August 2009.

The content of this particular cookie (which I have since deleted) was ZrUyKoAJTTeD6iXeivlOpA|| which I believe adheres to the format outlined in Richard Clayton's paper (Quote:"Phorm told us that the UID which is allocated to the user is a 16 byte value chosen at random. That is to say it is just a number. It is not, for example, an encryption of some data that might later be decrypted. The actual value sent on the wire will be base-64 encoded, so it will be seen by humans as a 22 character string.")

The website that my browser (Safari) attributed to this cookie was a.webwise.net

All this was done over a Virgin Media cable connection via cpc1-pete8-0-0-custxxx.pete.cable.ntl.com

I hope this clarifies things for those who were worried.

[Wildie]

did not see any ref on the webwise site to interception and profiling have i missed it?

[madslug]

I think it shows that Phorm have listened to fears about someone being able to opt you into webwise without your knowledge. Just a pity that VM users can be opted in by the script, even when webwise is not 'live'. A problem with the ISP sniffing script?

At the back of my mind, I am reminded that in 2006, the cookies were seeded by scripts used to display adverts in the weeks leading up to the trial. Look at how the BT site is seeding cookies for doubleclick, omniture and 2o7 with no advert in sight.

Maybe another petition is required, this time about the legality of Privacy Statements. The ICO (or someone) has a lot of work to do to get legislation up to speed.

[phormwatch]

I have asked on BadPhorm whether anyone would be willing to distribute flyers in London.

Meanwhile, for any new members out there who object to Phorm, don't forget to complain to the Anti-Phishing Workgroup:

Membership: membership@antiphishing.org
Press inquiries: pressrequest@antiphishing.org
Other general questions: info@antiphishing.org

Regarding the ludicrous situation of Phorm being an APWG sponsor:

http://www.antiphishing.org/sponsors.html

Where the Phorm logo is on display next to companies such as F-Secure, which branded Phorm's previous incarnation's software as spyware.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by phormwatch

OK, so I've had no offers to distribute Phorm Flyers on the Tube. I live 2 hours from London, so it would be a right pain for me to do it.

If no one is willing to take this up, then we should concentrate on other ways of getting the word out. Talking amongst ourselves on CableForum will do little to further the campaign unless what we talk about translates into action.

Any concrete ideas, suggestions?

I will print some off I am taking my mother to the hospital Tuesday so will try to drop a few there see if people waiting in waiting roosm will read them will also ask the shop if I can leave some near the till for others to pick up.

Maybe contacting such as Tesco Asda extra see if they will allow them to be distributed to customers.

I have already distributed to neighbours on my estate sorry I live too far to distribute flyers round London.

[phormwatch]

Thanks, Flo.

[Privacy_Matters]

Originally Posted by madslug

I think it shows that Phorm have listened to fears about someone being able to opt you into webwise without your knowledge. Just a pity that VM users can be opted in by the script, even when webwise is not 'live'. A problem with the ISP sniffing script?

At the back of my mind, I am reminded that in 2006, the cookies were seeded by scripts used to display adverts in the weeks leading up to the trial. Look at how the BT site is seeding cookies for doubleclick, omniture and 2o7 with no advert in sight.

Maybe another petition is required, this time about the legality of Privacy Statements. The ICO (or someone) has a lot of work to do to get legislation up to speed.

Mad

207 is Omniture. Its either a case of Omniture dropping the cookies, or more concering that sites that are affiliated with Omniture are dropping Omniture Cookies. At the last count, I had in excess of 100 cookies resolving to 207, Omniture also Cookies are being dropped using the site name:

a.pcpro.co.uk

Name: DM570308E6NZV6
Content: V1rrrrr"rz%B%CX%i%ir@^rr%XzBzieX@^^zr"%B%erCQ@@iz% B%CX%i%ir"%B%erCQ@@i"%B%erCQ@@iQireei"rz(xB$#akFxB $8OaxBrkaadxBr2TxBr3hxBrk:h_FxBrB%cTxBrTafxBrfqx BrIT_xBr7Icau::dxBrxBiIhf2c~axBr%CXXr@xB^z7}z)OuKr 6i^zNV::W~axBr=N`B%cTxBrDdxBrW:qahTmaTfz5)6<N5xB[<hWIT2cNa3k:h_F6%Q@@iXeirr6%B%erCQ@@i6%6r6r6%6r6r6 %*B%cTxBQBrDdxBQBrW:qahTmaTfxB5V::W~axBQBr=N6W::W~ axB(c:xB(Dd6b686r6b"56<N6%6r6%6r"V6%6r6%6rzA6#akF6 8OaHkaadH2TH3hHk:h_FHB%cTHTafHfqHIT_H7Icau::dHoI hf2c~aH%CXXr@9zOffGxXjxB$xB$kkkxB(W::W~axB(c:xB(Dd xB$FaIhcOxX$O~xX[aTxBepxX[B%cTxBrDdxBrW:qahTmaTfxBeufTVxX[V::W~axBr}aIhcOxBemafIxX[
Domain: .a.pcpro.co.uk
Path: /
Send for: Any type of connection
Expires: 14 July 2009 15:29:38

I am extremely concerned with this, as third-party cookies blocking are not working with Omniture - suggesting that the sites are dropping the cookies.

Now, I ask if it is the intention of Phorm to use the same method with their affiliates.

[tarka]

Originally Posted by lucevans

Sorry my post last night may have been a bit confusing: I actually went out of my way to see if I could get the webwise website to place a Phorm cookie on my system via my Virgin Media cable connection as follows:

I had to navigate through pages of badly-linked stuff on the site, but eventually got to the following page:

http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/in.html

where I clicked on the link called "Switch ON Webwise".

This dropped a cookie on my system called uid with the path /services and an expiry date of 4th August 2009.

The content of this particular cookie (which I have since deleted) was ZrUyKoAJTTeD6iXeivlOpA|| which I believe adheres to the format outlined in Richard Clayton's paper (Quote:"Phorm told us that the UID which is allocated to the user is a 16 byte value chosen at random. That is to say it is just a number. It is not, for example, an encryption of some data that might later be decrypted. The actual value sent on the wire will be base-64 encoded, so it will be seen by humans as a 22 character string.")

The website that my browser (Safari) attributed to this cookie was a.webwise.net

All this was done over a Virgin Media cable connection via cpc1-pete8-0-0-custxxx.pete.cable.ntl.com

I hope this clarifies things for those who were worried.

Confirmed, when clicking the opt in link I do see a similar cookie for a.webwise.net (i'm with BT). Interestingly, the opt out link just goes to the home page. To confirm that the opt out link wasn't doing anything at all I tried leaving the cookie in place then clicking the opt out link but after being sent to the home page the cookie remained, presumably leaving me opted in.

I also tried visiting a.webwise.net/services/ and got a 404.

[SelfProtection]

[QUOTE=phormwatch;34614022]I have asked on BadPhorm whether anyone would be willing to distribute flyers in London.

It may be worth repeating the request, once a week at the moment.
It's the main holiday period & many have other family commitments at the moment.

[Privacy_Matters]

[QUOTE=SelfProtection;34614036]

Originally Posted by phormwatch

I have asked on BadPhorm whether anyone would be willing to distribute flyers in London.

It may be worth repeating the request, once a week at the moment.
It's the main holiday period & many have other family commitments at the moment.

Also, as I keep hinting at - College Unions are a great place to canvas support. Students are great at getting their messages across, so why not canvas different Colleges around the UK - each of us armed with maybe 500-1000 flyers, and the support will flood in.

[philj]

Response from Virgin Media regarding email telling them I was posting letter (Data Protection Act) and my disgust at any implementation of Phorm or anything like it

Thank you for your e-mail dated 2 August 2008 concerning Virgin Media using PHORM.

I am sorry that you feel this way. Phorm Is there to safegaurd our customers not to transfer information about our users. Webwise checks these sites against a list of fraudulent sites and warns customers if they're heading to one. They're given the option to continue to that site, so Webwise won't restrict their online experience in any way, but at least they'll be able to decide for themselves, and avoid the chance of this form of identity theft. In this way Webwise helps to secure our customers' privacy.

Another great thing about Webwise is that it can help reduce irrelevant advertising. As customers browse web pages, Webwise looks at things like search terms, and learns what topics might be of interest. This is done without collecting any personal information, so once again their privacy is protected. These topics are then used to help filter out adverts that might be irrelevant - instead they'll simply see an advert that will match a topic they're are more interested in.

Webwise doesn't capture or store any customer's personal details, only anonymous information about advertising categories that may be of interest to them. Webwise places a common cookie in web browsers - a small computer code with a unique, randomly generated number on it. With this cookie, Webwise can deliver warnings of potentially dangerous websites and replace untargeted ads with more relevant ones. This cookie can be deleted at any time.

Virgin Media strives to provide excellent service to all its loyal customers. I am sorry for any inconvenience. If you have further queries regarding this matter or any other issue, please use the link provided below: