Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Capt Pugwash]

I still can't understand how they have guzzled so much money in `Administration Expenses' at the Trafalgar Square renta-desk.

[serial]

Originally Posted by Capt Pugwash

Does anyone understand the connection between Phorms major invester, Gestrust SA and it's prime mover Marc Angst (good name), his other strange company Arxiel, and their collection of dubious penny stocks like Identica Holdings Corporation?

I'm still wondering if Phorm was ever meant to be a serious company, or just a penny stock scam.

Odd that Phorm says that it hasn't issued a press release since 15 Apr 08?

Looking at the directors of Phorm, you've got some of the highest level people in the industry, I don't think they would get involved unless they saw the big easy £/$/₩

[Matari]

I think the answer is to use the Safari web browser - from the BT Community Forums (http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...180&tstart=0):

BT Webwise works with most major browsers, including Internet Explorer, Firefox, Netscape and Opera. Safari is not supported by the BT Webwise system. BT Webwise has been tested and proven to work with the following:

Internet Explorer 5.5, 6.0, 7.0
Firefox 1.0, 1.5, 2.0
Opera 7.54, 8.54, 9.0

It is the first time as a Mac user that I am glad that something is not compatible!

You can get Safari here:

For Mac: http://www.apple.com/safari/download/
For PC: http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...safari311.html

[tdadyslexia]

Thank you to all who were able to get there!

You are all stars, thank you again to you all!

[JackSon]

While it is a current solution, there is the danger it will only be temporary. As I'm sure Dephormation Pete would say, the only solution is to move to a non Phorm ISP.

[bluecar1]

digging around eu docs

***

(b) IP addresses
The Working Party 29 observes that in the context of the discussion of the ePrivacy
Directive the issue of whether IP addresses are personal data has been raised. The
Working Party 29 recalls that, in most cases – including cases with dynamic IP address
allocation – the necessary data will be available to identify the user(s) of the IP address.The Working Party noted in its WP 1367 that"… unless the Internet Service Provider is in
a position to distinguish with absolute certainty that the data correspond to users that
cannot be identified, it will have to treat all IP information as personal data, to be on the
safe side…." These considerations will apply equally to search engine operators (WP
1488).
*****

that clears that up, and the reason why phorm are trying not to capture IP's

my bold

peter

[Matari]

Great tongue in cheek take on the Bt/Phorm Q&A posted by Mark H on the BT Community Forums:

http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...t=180&tstart=0

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by Matari

I think the answer is to use the Safari web browser - from the BT Community Forums (http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...180&tstart=0):

BT Webwise works with most major browsers, including Internet Explorer, Firefox, Netscape and Opera. Safari is not supported by the BT Webwise system. BT Webwise has been tested and proven to work with the following:

Internet Explorer 5.5, 6.0, 7.0
Firefox 1.0, 1.5, 2.0
Opera 7.54, 8.54, 9.0

It is the first time as a Mac user that I am glad that something is not compatible!

You can get Safari here:

For Mac: http://www.apple.com/safari/download/
For PC: http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...safari311.html

Strictly speaking (and someone correct me if I am wrong in any way) nothing is incompatible with the Phorm webwise system with a bit of tweaking. Insomuch that Phorm/Webwise rely on DPI (Deep packet inspection) to intercept the data stream. This means that apart from browser headers being different the data contained within can be intercepted just as easily.

In a nutshell its like me saying your letter in the Royal Mail system cannot be opened by the postman (hypothetically) and read if it has an airmail sticker on. Or alternatively as another example, its like saying terrorists cannot be investigated online by the special services (and with a valid court order) if they use the Safari Browser when on the net. Its just not true!

[serial]

Originally Posted by Matari

I think the answer is to use the Safari web browser

This is not the answer, the answer is to stop Phorm. Most people use IE, technology is scary to a lot of people and they stick to what they have/know.

The Phorm/Webwise system preys on people who do not understand technology, and frankly why should they need to. What is happening technologically with Phorm is disgusting, EVERY expert on internet technology hates this.

It is incredibly easy for Phorm to switch and track Safari users. It's the classic safe today, at risk tomorrow.

[bluecar1]

rob, pete

you to like pulling docs apart and getting info

have you seen http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj...7/wp136_en.pdf

titled "Opinion 4/2007 on the concept of personal data"

one of the opening para's is

*******
The Directive contains a broad notion of personal data
The definition of personal data contained in Directive 95/46/EC (henceforth "the data
protection Directive" or "the Directive") reads as follows:
“Personal data shall mean any information relating to an identified or identifiable
natural person (“data subject”); an identifiable person is one who can be identified,
directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identification number or to one
or more factors specific to his physical, physiological, mental, economic, cultural or
social identity”.
It needs to be noted that this definition reflects the intention of the European lawmaker
for a wide notion of "personal data", maintained throughout the legislative process. The
Commission's original proposal explained that "as in Convention 108, a broad
definition is adopted in order to cover all information which may be linked to an
individual"2. The Commission's modified proposal noted that "the amended proposal
meets Parliament's wish that the definition of "personal data" should be as general as
possible, so as to include all information concerning an identifiable individual"3, a
wish that also the Council took into account in the common position4.
*******

that just about seems to cover the unique ID no. and the keywords / data contained in the profile

what do you think?

i feel a few more letters about to hit the postbox
peter

[AlexanderHanff]

https://nodpi.org/2008/07/16/protest...can-a-summary/

Alexander Hanff

[Dephormation]

My day at the BT AGM 2008. With huge thanks to the people who made it possible. I didn't get thrown out or arrested thank God

I'm sure you'll enjoy reading this as much as I enjoyed participating...

http://www.dephormation.org.uk/?page=27

I don't think BT's AGM 2008 could have been much more difficult.

[bluecar1]

also from the same doc

********
It is useful to recall that the
reasons for enacting the first data protection laws in the seventies stemmed from the
fact that new technology in the form of electronic data processing allows easier and
more widespread access to personal data than the traditional forms of data handling
*******
that seems to blow phorm and BT's arguement about perc etc being applied to situations they were not intended for

peter

[Digbert]

Originally Posted by Capt Pugwash

I'm still wondering if Phorm was ever meant to be a serious company, or just a penny stock scam.

Odd that Phorm says that it hasn't issued a press release since 15 Apr 08?

I have feeling you may be right. A quick look through Phorm's financial reports paints a picture of a company spending nearly 4 years development on an ever changing system that doesn't work.

Here are a few extracts (my italics):-

2004 Final Results

We have also invested, in the latter part of 2004 and early 2005, in our technologies and particularly the PageSense Javascript application.Our efforts at the start of this year have been to ensure that the application is sufficiently robust and scaleable, ahead of a full commercial launch.

2005 Interim Results

We are making good progress in using the information generated by PageSense Javascript...
We are also close to finalising a partnership agreement with one of the largest ISPs in the US, which we believe will set an important precedent for the deployment of PageSense throughout the ISP market.

2005 Final results

Our PageSense Javascript application analyses the meaning and context of a web page being viewed by a user in real time, allowing us to deliver targeted advertisements to that user.
As at April 2006, we have signed agreements with ten entities to implement our PageSense technology, and have now established relationships with most of the largest US ISPs. A number of the signed partnerships are currently in testing phase, and the full revenue benefits are expected to flow during 2006.


2006 Interim Results

We have made outstanding progress towards our goal of establishing 121Media’s PageSense technology as the ‘gold standard’ in contextual online advertising as well as consumer privacy. The Directors believe that PageSense represents the future of digital advertising.


2006 Final results

The Company is pleased to report its platform is in the final stage of evaluation by numerous major global ISPs.
The Company has built on its existing PageSense platform to create a new server-based architecture called ProxySense. In Q4 of 2006, we conducted a live user trial of PageSense with a UK ISP, and we are about to start a larger trial of ProxySense with a test base of several hundred thousand users.

2007 Interim Results

In June we announced that the Company had entered into Heads of Agreement with a number of ISPs. These Heads of Agreement, which represent substantial opportunities, set forth the basis under which these ISPs intend to deploy Phorm's technology platform.

2007 Final Results

Furthermore, we continue to be in advanced discussions with a number of other ISPs, both in the UK and internationally, and following extensive due diligence we have moved into the trial phase with a number of them..

[madslug]

Originally Posted by Matari

It is the first time as a Mac user that I am glad that something is not compatible!

My vote is still for using iCab - it is the only browser which has true control over 3rd party anything. I have even seen the browser logs rejecting .domain.tld cookies when you are on www.domain.tld - useful for the few nasty cookies which are set for the domain .co.uk

Any browser that you can set as being something other that what it actually is is probably a good bet. (logic being that the useragent will not be recognised)

However, whatever you do with your browser does nothing to stop your traffic being intercepted and profiled by the Level 7 switch hosted by the ISP. The only true solution is moving to an ISP who only uses DPI systems for legal purposes