Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Matari]

Hi All

I did not know anything about this business with Phorm until a news item via my RSS feed from the MacinTouch website arrived in my browser today - see below.

As a very reluctant BT customer I am horrified, but not surprised that my ISP has done this and am absolutely outraged that BT and the other ISPs involved have not been charged by the police.

I fully support your campaign - have signed the petition at 10 Downing Street, Dugg the various articles and also added them to Stumbleupon. In addition the MacinTouch website, which has been around since Macs were first developed, is a central plank of the Mac community, so the message will have been received by a huge number of people.

Keep up the good work!

Matari


From MacinTouch website (http://www.macintouch.com/index.shtm....07.16.phorm):

The Register reports on a protest over British Telecom's support for a secret browser snooping system:

BT conducted two trials with Phorm which gave the former spyware company access to thousands of BT customers' browsing history without telling them. Phorm aims to use anonymised browsing information to sell more targeted advertising. BT insists the secret trial was legal, even though it appears to breach UK wiretap laws.

The secret trial came to light when Reg reader Stephen noticed his browser making unauthorised connections with a server he didn't recognise. He contacted BT and was told the server had nothing to do with them and he had probably picked up some malware. BT denied having done any deal with Phorm, although Phorm admitted the server was theirs and was being used to collect browsing information.
[See also The Phorm Files.]

[Rchivist]

1 - thaks to the guys and girls who turned out today. WELL DONE



2 - a thought for tomorrow. If the demo/AGM infiltration has been a success we need to be on our best behaviour after today - not to keep mods happy but to be able to make the most of any visits by interested BT employees and investors who have got the message and come here for info.

So - my suggestions are -

Don't rant!
Don't respond to provocation!

There may well be some spoiling activity - it looks like it was not a good day for Phorm today, with the number of BT shareholders and employees leafleted and the EU news hitting the wires - so we can expect agent provocateurs - wolves in sheep's clothing - provocation - bear baiting etc.

We don't have to respond.

I suggest we leave the rabble to the moderators. With no one in mind - the forum has it's discreet ways of showing approval or disapproval via the forum tools. We can just use those, or PM's to the mods.

Let's keep the thread tidy for the visitors!

As Sgt Esterhaas said on Hill St Blues - Hey, Hey, Let's be careful in here!

Without being patronising we need to be able to direct people to places where they can get inphormation in a very easily digestible phorm.

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Matari

Hi All

I did not know anything about this business with Phorm until a news item via my RSS feed from the MacinTouch website arrived in my browser today - see below.

As a very reluctant BT customer I am horrified, but not surprised that my ISP has done this and am absolutely outraged that BT and the other ISPs involved have not been charged by the police.

I fully support your campaign - have signed the petition at 10 Downing Street, Dugg the various articles and also added them to Stumbleupon. In addition the MacinTouch website, which has been around since Macs were first developed, is a central plank of the Mac community, so the message will have been received by a huge number of people.

Keep up the good work!

Matari

and well done. You've got the idea.

[Privacy_Matters]

Originally Posted by R Jones

1 - thaks to the guys and girls who turned out today. WELL DONE



2 - a thought for tomorrow. If the demo/AGM infiltration has been a success we need to be on our best behaviour after today - not to keep mods happy but to be able to make the most of any visits by interested BT employees and investors who have got the message and come here for info.

So - my suggestions are -

Don't rant!
Don't respond to provocation!

There may well be some spoiling activity - it looks like it was not a good day for Phorm today, with the number of BT shareholders and employees leafleted and the EU news hitting the wires - so we can expect agent provocateurs - wolves in sheep's clothing - provocation - bear baiting etc.

We don't have to respond.

I suggest we leave the rabble to the moderators. With no one in mind - the forum has it's discreet ways of showing approval or disapproval via the forum tools. We can just use those, or PM's to the mods.

Let's keep the thread tidy for the visitors!

As Sgt Esterhaas said on Hill St Blues - Hey, Hey, Let's be careful in here!

Without being patronising we need to be able to direct people to places where they can get inphormation in a very easily digestible phorm.

I agree fully.

Today has been good for our cause, with the demo, the EU Demand, the survey and of course the guys spreading the word to the BT Shareholders and Customers.

I will only suggest that debate should be welcomed, but please everyone ensure that it is in line with Phorm, and don't let any individual distract you.

This is a great day for the Campaign, which solidifies the foundations - lets buid on it.

I propose that we discuss more methods to spread the word, and continue the momentum.

Congrats to all at the demo - good job.

[pseudonym]

Originally Posted by serial

Also back from the protest, the day went really well. Dephormation Pete was our inside man, I'll let him fill you in when he gets back, but trust me it's worth the wait

Handed out loads of fliers, lots of shareholders came over, like madslug said, and asked us to explain what Webwise was. Also after the AGM between 3.30 - 4.30 there was a BT emloyees meeting also at the Barbican, needless to say they got a load of fliers also.

BT employee "WHAT! BT ARE DOING THAT?"

Looks like the PIA is finished, I'll let Alex explain all in his report.

Great to meet those that turned up.

I wasn't there, but I'd like to thank everyone who went to the protest.

My ISP is not one of the Phorm Three, but if BT & Virgin adopt it, I have little doubt that they'd eventually follow suit.

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by Deko

From advfn.



found a link
http://www.easybourse.com/bourse-act...argeted-488767

Update to story.

Can't wait to get the rest of the Gossip about today on the Phorm /Webwise protest event at The Barbican. I wish I could have been there.

I think for a moment the Phorm PR may have thought the earlier smaller crowd than expected was maybe a good sign for them. Not at all.

I hope they first check out the EC news today and any other developments.

I strongly suspect there will soon be a lot of very burned investors in this illegal technology shortly. Anybody with a shred of technical common sense who has no actual ties with Phorm should be able to see that this outrageous system is doomed to failure due to the privacy issues that cannot be avoided without the system being an economic failure.

Unfortunately this includes the ICO and The UK Government who soon it seems are going to get their wrists slapped if they don't pull their finger out.

I really hope a couple of BT execs go to jail as an example to all others who think they can just railroad in invasive technology to all and sundry and override the privacy of the common people of this land.

Virgin Media I hope you are watching!

[serial]

For the Pro-Phormers reading this I just want to make this point, we told people exactly how the system works (in so far as whats in the public domain). There was no scaremongering, those attending the protest all understand clearly how the current webwise product works. If anyone pro-phorm thinks that what is being said here is not correct then please post and correct people.

I'm talking correct as in factually, not with regards people opinions. Please also provide proof to back-up any corrections.

So, a BT spokesman has now said BT had sought legal advice during previous trials of the technology in 2006 and 2007 and added the words "always acted in good faith" to the statement eh?

Now that is different to the line they have been spinning since the start of April when Emma-le-le-legal started trying to defend their position!! Me thinks this is the start of a turn around from them in the face of a clear recognition that the le-le-legal advice they "sought" (but did not "receive"??) was (or would have been??) completely wrong and telling them not to intercept the communication of their customers with lawful authority.

Re the protest against Deep Packet Inspection which VM, BT and CWTT still won't rule out... Well done people. And less anyone suggests, that whatever the numbers in attendance were, is a reflection of the number of people who will make a stand against it... Wrong. I was not there and I won't rest whilst this is still being considered in the UK or Europe as a whole.

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

Originally Posted by serial

If anyone pro-phorm thinks that what is being said here is not correct then please post and correct people.

Yes, well said. Phorm, we are all ears and reasonable people, educated and willing to be shown how what we have learned so far is wrong and what we have worked out is incorrect. I'll listen if there's new info to consider.

[JackSon]

I want to congratulate everybodyfor what sounds like a productive and professionally handled deomonstration. I am loathed that some family commitments prevented me from attending (everything seems to crop up when you don't want it to) but I shall pencil in the next one if and when it occurs. Also, hope you all sit down and crack open a bottle of wine before you start work on typing up the feedback and results of the day, you all deserve it.

[Wildie]

Well done to you all, as the saying goes its the few or the one that CAN make the difference not always the many, history is full of the few and the ones that changed the world.

[bluecar1]

while today might not have been the mass protest we hope for, it sounds like the number reached a respectable level and it was a good PR win for those of us against phorm / BT Webwise

well done and thanks to all those who both attended to inform the public and those members of the public who listened to what we had to say and asked questions, a good well ordered protest that was thanks to the preperation and organisation in the background by alex and the others

thankyou to you all

on a a slightly different note, did anyone see members of the press? and how did the handing in of the evidence go at the police station, any press there?

peter

[serial]

A quick pic (click to enlarge):
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

There were others there but across the street handing out leaflets.

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by Matari

Hi All

I did not know anything about this business with Phorm until a news item via my RSS feed from the MacinTouch website arrived in my browser today - see below.

As a very reluctant BT customer I am horrified, but not surprised that my ISP has done this and am absolutely outraged that BT and the other ISPs involved have not been charged by the police.

I fully support your campaign - have signed the petition at 10 Downing Street, Dugg the various articles and also added them to Stumbleupon. In addition the MacinTouch website, which has been around since Macs were first developed, is a central plank of the Mac community, so the message will have been received by a huge number of people.

Keep up the good work!

Matari


From MacinTouch website (http://www.macintouch.com/index.shtm....07.16.phorm):

The Register reports on a protest over British Telecom's support for a secret browser snooping system:

BT conducted two trials with Phorm which gave the former spyware company access to thousands of BT customers' browsing history without telling them. Phorm aims to use anonymised browsing information to sell more targeted advertising. BT insists the secret trial was legal, even though it appears to breach UK wiretap laws.

The secret trial came to light when Reg reader Stephen noticed his browser making unauthorised connections with a server he didn't recognise. He contacted BT and was told the server had nothing to do with them and he had probably picked up some malware. BT denied having done any deal with Phorm, although Phorm admitted the server was theirs and was being used to collect browsing information.
[See also The Phorm Files.]

I am sure there are many like yourself. Keep spreading the word.

[bluecar1]

something funny happening with the shares today, iii,lse and official stock exchange pages listing volumes of 130,000+ but nowhere seems to be displaying anywhere near this volume?? and the price went up

i am confused

peter

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by Hank

So, a BT spokesman has now said BT had sought legal advice during previous trials of the technology in 2006 and 2007 and added the words "always acted in good faith" to the statement eh?

Now that is different to the line they have been spinning since the start of April when Emma-le-le-legal started trying to defend their position!!
snip

Yes - I think that is a very significant change in tone. I've been reading BT public statements and emails for a few months now - and I think I am fairly well attuned to their style, and reading between the lines etc. and that is the first time I have seen anything quite like that - "acted in good faith". That sounds like butt covering to me, but they'll need something a bit bigger and less "transparent" to cover this up.

It sounds like the first move in a defensive rear-guard action. Up to now they have always said that they had legal advice and asserted their confidence. Now they are making what sounds like an excuse - practicing their plea in mitigation perhaps?

[lucevans]

Originally Posted by R Jones

Yes - I think that is a very significant change in tone. I've been reading BT public statements and emails for a few months now - and I think I am fairly well attuned to their style, and reading between the lines etc. and that is the first time I have seen anything quite like that - "acted in good faith". That sounds like butt covering to me, but they'll need something a bit bigger and less "transparent" to cover this up.

It sounds like the first move in a defensive rear-guard action. Up to now they have always said that they had legal advice and asserted their confidence. Now they are making what sounds like an excuse - practicing their plea in mitigation perhaps?

Could it perhaps be because up until now they've been assured by their friends in high places (just look look at the list of politicians on the board of BT) that the government would turn a blind eye to their plans? Now that the EU has released details of the threatening letter to the UK government ("sort it...or else....") they feel very vulnerable all of a sudden. Good. Smarmy creeps.